shooty grey knights

I got into a debate with a guy up here in Canada who swears that Paladins + Dreadknights are the greatest combo in the new GK Codex, and probably the best thing since sliced bread. I disagreed, feeling that purifiers really make an excellent option, especially with fortitude on rhinos... which, if you consider it, is really quite broken. Anyway, I made up a purifier list and a varient. let me know what you think

List 1:
HQ -
Crowe - 150 pts
Ordo X inquisitor (Conversion Beamer, 3x Servo Skulls) - 79 pts

Troops -
Purifiers (x5, 2x psycannons, rhino) - 180
Purifiers (x5, 2x psycannons, rhino) - 180
Purifiers (x5, 2x psycannons, rhino) - 180
Purifiers (x5, 2x psycannons, rhino) - 180
Purifiers (x5, 2x psycannons, rhino) - 180
Purifiers (x5, 2x psycannons, rhino) - 180

Elites -
Techmarine (3x Servo Skulls) - 99
Techmarine (3x Servo Skulls) - 99
Techmarine (3x Servo Skulls, Orbital Bombardment) - 149

Heavy Support -
Dreadnought (2x autocannons, psybolts) - 135
Dreadnought (2x autocannons, psybolts) - 135
Dreadnought (2x autocannons, psybolts) - 135

Fast Attack -
Interceptors (x5, 1x psycannon, 1x daemon hammer) - 150
Interceptors (x5, 1x psycannon, 1x daemon hammer) - 150
Interceptors (x5, 1x psycannon) - 140

Total:2501
List 2:
HQ -
Crowe - 150 pts

Troops -
Purifiers (x5, 2x psycannons, rhino) - 180
Purifiers (x5, 2x psycannons, rhino) - 180
Purifiers (x5, 2x psycannons, rhino) - 180
Purifiers (x5, 2x psycannons, rhino) - 180
Purifiers (x5, 2x psycannons, rhino) - 180
Purifiers (x5, 2x psycannons, rhino) - 180

Elites -
Techmarine (3x Servo Skulls) - 99
Techmarine (3x Servo Skulls, Orbital Bombardment) - 149
Techmarine (3x Servo Skulls, Orbital Bombardment) - 149

Heavy Support -
Dreadnought (2x autocannons, psybolts) - 135
Dreadnought (2x autocannons, psybolts) - 135
Dreadnought (2x autocannons, psybolts) - 135

Fast Attack -
Interceptors (x5, 1x psycannon, 1x daemon hammer) - 150
Interceptors (x5, 1x psycannon, 1x daemon hammer) - 150
Interceptors (x5, 1x psycannon, 1x daemon hammer) - 150

Total:2482

Tactics:
servo skulls (12 in list 1, 9 in list 2) cover the field, limiting the deployment options of the enemy, and preventing surprises from deep strike, outflaning, drop pods DoA, etc. Techmarines boster defences, creating 3+ cover, and hang out there with the dreads. Can repair dreads if damaged, or fire orbital strike barrage, forcing the enemy out of the backfield (in list 1 the inquisitor is back there too, using the conversion beamer for the same purpose) rhinos move into midfield, laying down fire with two psycannons from the hatch, interceptors fly around tank busting, laying down fire, warp quaking and saving teleport shunt for end of game contesting or for when you just really need to take ot a tank's rear armor. Currently, Crowe's just there to make the purifiers troops... he can either provide combat defence in the backfield if they eventually get past all the guns-n-skulls, or he can run around hitting things untill he eventually gives up a kill point.

i know minimum sized squads aren't always optimal, but fortitude on rhinos ensures that you'll be able to shoot far more often than normal, and when they do get popped, purifiers can really hold their own in combat with cleansing flame.

pros: guns. there's 15 psycannons in there, and those dreds combined with the techmarines and a 3+ save are going to be real hard to kill. the 6 rhinos means that manouvering into position shouldn't be too difficult, especially under cover of the dreads and bombardments. also, granted rhino armor is weak, but the oponnent is going to have to choose between popping transports or finding a way to take out the long range artillery. 6 scoring units means as long as you manage them correctly you'll have something to score with come the turn 4-5 objective grab, and the interceptor's teleport shunt means they'll always be having to worry about your 30" contesting move.

cons: killpoints. there's 23 KP in list 1, 22 in list 2. if you can manage your opponent and force him to stay in your crossfire, this shouldn't be an issue though. Also, this list tends to lean heavily on the theory of MSU, which can go south real quick if you get into combat with units much bigger than yours. staying in rhinos and keeping your distance offsets that a bit, as does the cleansing flame when they eventually do get into combat. the interceptors, though are not meant to be in combat if you can help it, unless it's to finish off a wounded squad. their use is more lying in wait, providing mobile fire and busting tanks.

Paladins + dreadknights are far from the best combo. Most competitive players are playing a purifier spam of some sort.

Purifier Spam is seriously nasty, so you've got a solid start. I would suggest giving one or two guys in each Purifier unit a halberd. This will mitigate some of the issues of MSU as you will be able to strike several enemies down before they ever swing. Couple the I6 with hammerhand, and you've probably dropped two or three enemies before they ever swing. Or if you're fighting horde, use purifying flame. Target priority will also be vital against certain builds. A good opponent will be able to slow down your progress across the board and out-range your 24". Just my thoughts.

BTW, a list quite similar to this wiped my Daemons off the board by turn three. Granted it was Daemons against GK, but the bonuses didn't really come into play until assault, and by that time my units were at half-strength or less.

*cough* WGC Table 1 GK List *cough*

I started out as a huge fan of purifiers but they've fallen into the "Ooh Shiny!" aspect of the game for me. The biggest problem I see is your dreads are your only ranged threats (which they usually are, but your described tactic makes it sound even more so). I'd also be worried about TH/SS Termies in a raider since your only AT capable of doing "reliable" damage is the OX Inquistor.

Killpoints are almost always going to be an issue in Mech based armies. But on the bright side, Pallies and Dreadknights should fear this list.

Also, DEldar and IG can make pallies and DK's disappear real quick.

Dreadknights seem pretty bad. I saw a lot of people run them in Austin, just not really my cup of tea.

Not to derail this thread, but why are so many people running techmarines?

bdix wrote:

Not to derail this thread, but why are so many people running techmarines?

Hammerhand stacks.

Also Dreadknights aren't bad, they just aren't Psyflemen.

PhantomPhoenix wrote:

The biggest problem I see is your dreads are your only ranged threats (which they usually are, but your described tactic makes it sound even more so). I'd also be worried about TH/SS Termies in a raider since your only AT capable of doing "reliable" damage is the OX Inquistor.

yeah, that's why i'm leaning more towards the second list, and considering dropping one of the interceptor squads, bumping up to three orbital strikes (1 on each tech marine), and use the leftover points to buy the OX Inquisitor in that list for 4x s10 weapons, or spreading halberds and hammers around the purifier squads

bdix wrote:

Not to derail this thread, but why are so many people running techmarines?

the reason they're in this list is for their "bolster defenses" special rule coupled with their repair abilities and psychic powers. bolster defenses lets you make a ruin a 3+ cover save, where the techmarine can hang out with the psyfle dread. when a shot eventually makes it through the 3+ cover and knocks a gun off, the techmarine can just stick it back on in the next shooting phase on a 4+ (rerolling if he gets his psychic power off) stick an orbital bombardment on him, and turns he's not repairing he's dropping st10 ap1 bombs on tanks and multiple blast templates on troops (i've not had a situation to use the anti-psyker bomb yet, so i can't vouch for it's effectiveness)

The reason most people are running them is for their batman utility belt of grenades. I dont agree with taking them unless they have at least rad grenades and are going in with a squad. Sweet E buys all the grenades.

Remember bolster only works on ruins. Not all tables will have them.

Wildeyedjester wrote:

Remember bolster only works on ruins. Not all tables will have them.

that's true, i guess it is more situational than i've allowed for, but it hasn't been an issue for me yet because every single table i've played on for the past two and a half months have had ruins... it seems to be a very common terrain choice up here. I guess I probably need to vary terrain types as well as opposing armies for playtesting such a situational ability.

Wildeyedjester wrote:

The reason most people are running them is for their batman utility belt of grenades. I dont agree with taking them unless they have at least rad grenades and are going in with a squad. Sweet E buys all the grenades.

I'm a fan of banishers with eviscerators at S10, But the grenades are a big draw.