BoK 6th Ed rumors

capnwoodrow wrote:

Clearly these are fabrications. They contain the most ridiculous thing i've ever heard of:

GW advancing their fluff.

Your right. Gw doesn't advance their fluff... They rewrite it!!

Very good observations Haren.

I saw something relating to the fluff rewrites one time that was a really neat interpretation of why it happened. Think of it as 1984. History/current events were constantly getting re-wrote by Big Brother and what is more Big Brotherish than the Imperium of Man?

GW and Newspeak. That sounds about right.

I agree with Haren as to GW's failure to own the message. All they need to do is extend their timetable for advertisement and promotion and they would quell much of this misinformation as people would be largely sated.

The notion that their current rumor lockdown is anything but a blunder is beyond me. They are alienating their player base, and it has begun to feel like a, "You schmucks will buy this no matter what we do, so suck it, Mwuhahahahahah....Mwuhahahahahahha," philosophy.

I'm going to have to agree wholeheartedly on this one. There's no obvious avenue of interaction between the developers and the gamers. Even a game like World of Warcraft at least makes the token gesture of fostering a community. It would certainly seem possible to release bits of information ahead of time as well, if nothing else at least the rumor mongers would have a basis in reality, and a direction before going off the deep end.

I'd love to see them do a Call to Arms series, where they have official forums and lay out ideas they have for the future of the game(s) and armies, then ask players for their feedback. For instance:

"We're working on the new Chaos book, and we have some ideas. We're moving more in this direction than we have in the past. But we'd like to know, what's the the three things you'd most like to see in the new book and product line for Chaos?"

In terms of WFB players, it would give them at least an idea of how many players really want to see new Dragon Ogre models, or actual Forsaken models, etc. I'm sure in 40k there are clear examples as well. Plain and simple, GW needs a forum and a staff of community relation experts.

But more importantly...

They need some quality control on that Finecast crap, like yesterday!

You want to talk about promoting your hobby. This topic is one of the hotest on this forum and many others. By not releasing information GW has created a buzz about the new game system so that all players are talking about it. Older players are saying that if they change this or that, I am going to take my ball and go home. New players are thinking about how this will affect the army that they just bought, will it make it better or worse, even the guys who aren't actively into 40K right now are discussing it saying that they may have to give it another try.
The topic around the shop for the past 6 months or more is what fantasy book is coming out after empire and are we getting one or two more books before the end of the year.
Every edition of Warhammer or Warhammer 40K has come with a lot of rumors and people saying that they will either love it or hate it. There will always be those who say that they won't play if they change thins or those who say that I will only play it again if they change things. Almost nothing changes about the hobby other than how the game is played in this edition. I remember when I first opened my store hearing guys complain about how they have gotten the rules wrong and how if they were in charge they could fix it. Or the classic of GW is raising prices again. Don't they know they will kill this hobby and run away players. Strange but I have seen guys come and guys go but yet the hobby remains, as it will long after 6th edition comes and goes. Who plays 6th edition remains to be seen, but people will play it. It is still one of the most popular games worldwide.
Just remember there is no bad publicity, just publicity.

I don't really hold to the notion of "there's no such thing as bad publicity."

However, I agree that they aren't going to kill the hobby, but it may go into an unnecessary, minor hibernation. I just think they could build the community positively instead of garnering little more than a patina of vitriol.

Yes, people are going to gripe about every change or lack thereof, and I hope quite sincerely that the changes are workable, as I have 3 complete armies and truly enjoy playing the game. Nevertheless, I still think that their current policy of suppression creates unnecessary animosity. I am not waiting with anticipation but with trepidation, and I think that is a notable difference.

Monkey,
I hear what you are saying. Hoewever, I have never seen 40K or Fantasy go into hibernation, now I have seen gaming groups take a hyatus from the game but the game still gets played.
I understand that you are not looking forward to the new edition with anticipation, I spoke to that as I said the older, or more experienced players if you will, look on any change with intrepidation. They tend to like things as they are or minor changes. However, a lot of the guys not currently playing 40K are looking forward to the new book as an opportunity to get started in something new. I get the pleasure of seeing this from all of the angles as player of all different skill levels, ages and philosophies roll through the store. I get to see the hard core tournament players who are looking for the ultimate build, to those who are fluff players, to those who are just looking for a diversion. I even get the opportunity twice a year to have some friends from across the pond to stop in and give me the sccop on how things are going in Europe. I say this not trying to pigeonhole anyone into a ceratin bracket, but rather to try and explaiin my point of view from my years of owning a shop.
While I do not always like change, I have learned to accept it as it comes wether or not I want it to.
I hope that the changes do not affect the player base in NWA, but experience has taught me that it almost certainly will. Some guys will take a break as they wait for rules that they more easily identify with and some new players will emerge. Such is life.
Don't forget that we will have a few more opportunities to ply our trade with the old edition before we have to deal with the new.

For me I just hope it will be a "game" and not a giant army building equation anymore. Bring on the random whatever.

It can be a 'game' now. A lot of us like the competitiveness though, and if you don't want to play a tournament list you just need to say so.

There's nothing stopping you from taking all foot gaunts if you wanted, just like in fantasy nothing stops
You from playing all goblins. In a tournament you aren't going to win with it, but it is what it is.

Sports and games aren't all equally fair and nor is 40k. Teams get better athletes, people get better cards, and some people have played enough to know what works. Even chess is not fair despite the same pieces on both sides.

Should a new player be able to lay down whatever and beat a veteran that attends several GTs yearly for the past 5 years, just due to randomness? If so we might as well just roll a die to determine who wins, right?

Random does equate to fun to me but I lean to boardgames for that itch. For 40k I want something I can think on an ponder. Something fun and competitive. Something that is intellectually stimulating.

If you're trying to play 40k competitvely, from everything we've seen from GW, you're doing it wrong. They are very much anti-tournament since Dave Thomas left US GW. I'm not sure what system is what you're looking for; Warmachine is closer but still has power level disparities. Flames of War, I hear, is pretty close to balanced so the better player consistently wins. Either that or M:tG?

Now, that being said, Aaron Chapman keeps winning edition after edition, and this edition of Fantasy is certainly more random, so even adding random elements doesn't change it that much.

The same way WFB is a 'game' now. Just because you roll 2d6+movement for charges and generate magic dice by a 2d6 mechanic doesn't make it any more or less competitive. In playing 8th for 2ish years, i've never felt like I lost a game due to rolling low on the magic dice or failing a charge that I should have made. I win games because I can deploy, redirect, know what to stop and what to let go in the magic phase, and how to pick match ups in a fight. The same reason i've never moaned about a super spell deleting one of my units. It just hasn't happened in 2 years of play. But because it has happened to some people and they go online and moan about it...it's what people think the entire game is..just random dice rolls with superspells that remove entire units from the board.

The same people winning hundred man GTs in 7th are the same people winning them now.

I guess the best any of us can hope for is that 40k is the same way. It may add in some random elements that change the way people play or what type of armies they bring, but it won't change the fact that it's still a competitive game between two people that takes skill in many areas to succeed at while still being fun.

No one is saying you have to enjoy 6th if it's got random elements you hate in it. It's just a bit early to start ragequitting.

No one said they were rage quitting. We are all saying we are discouraged but will wait to see.

From BOLS today (slightly ot, but this has become our rumor thread):

-There will be at least 4+ "Disciplines" of Psychic Powers in the game.  (WFB has 8 lores)
-Disciplines seem to fall roughly along the lines of the sects described in the novel "A Thousand Sons" as used by the Heresy-Era chapter. 
-Each Discipline will have a "Default" power and a set of others that you will roll for each game.
-Number of rolls you get and the the exact details of which powers you end up with are said to be similar to WFB 8th's power selection mechanic.
-Powers have a "Casting Cost" that is different from the mechanic used in WFB 8th.
-Certain 6th Codices will add additional racial specific Disciplines.

If magic is an influential as it in in WHFB, then Tau are in trouble again. Maybe it will give Tyranids some bite though. There powers are pretty decent.

Conjecture:
If it's like fantasy's magic system it may give all races psychic defense. Ie your opponent has 5 psychic dice and you get 3 dice to stop it.

May help out the hoodless xenos.

Cross conjecture:

Xenos are screwed again. GW only likes Space Marines. Sell your stuff now while some sucker will still buy it.

Yeah it would make defense less important because everyone would have it, but at the races without powers would still be in the same boat.