Skaven Flank Guards

I've got 161 pts to build a force to discoruage/tie up flank attacks. Which choice do you all like better, or do you have a different idea?

20 Clan Rats w/ Shields +Warpfire Thrower Team (or possibly 7 PWG's)


or

18 Giant Rats, 2 PM'rs

And either:

2 Rat ogres + 1 PM or 9 PWG's.

Or finally,

Either a WLC or PCC supported by either PWG's or a skavenslave speedbump to fill out the points


Right now, I'm leaning towards option A as the WFT tends to encourage people to look elsewhere for a weak point. OTOH, the utility of the WLC or PCC is attractive, but I'm not sure I want to base such a critical mission on something as unpredicatable and vulnerable as a war machine. Seems to be elevating the danger from that of risk (will set you back if it fails) to gamble (probably will cost you the battle if it fails).

-MaxGrav

The first option sounds the best to me. The Warp Fire Thrower has the most intimidation factor. The giant rats and friends, in option 2, are not strong enough (but neither are the clanrats of option 1) to hold a flank, and not scary enough to discourage the opponent. The last option is also good, but you would need something other than the slaves or Poison Wind Globadiers to slow down a strong enemy unit, and like you I would not want to put the trust of my entire army on a warmachine.

Fethos wrote:

The giant rats and friends, in option 2, are not strong enough (but neither are the clanrats of option 1) to hold a flank,

They're not actually tasked with holding a flank unsupported. They're more of a delaying unit until reenforcements can arrive, which shouldn't be long as the flanks shouldn't be more than 18 inches away from the army center. They're more to disrupt scouts than anything. If I feel that a flank will be seriosuly threatened, I'll shift deployment to put the army along one edge and double up on the flank guard on the open side. I do feel moderatley comfortable holding a flank with two flank guards reenforced by the rear area guard (and possibly 1 main block) as that's 100-200 LD 10 w/ reroll rats to throw at the problem. They might not eradicate the flanking manuver, but they should hold it up long enough for the main blocks to annihilate the rest of the enemy.



-MaxGrav

I usually see aboms & doomwheels on the flank.

I thought about both but the random movement amount is a big negative as is the shooting for the doomwheel. I thought about running a rat swarm with them to soak random lightning, but I hate how the swarm must always move towards the enemy at best speed. sometimes, there's more to be gained by moving a bit slower. I really do liek the abom, but it's a huge point sink and i'll get more milage from a points-equivalent amount of Clanrats w/ spears since they can fight with Spears as a Horde.

-MaxGrav

I think you're underestimating how far your flanks are away from center. 9/10 times a skaven player puts the bell in the middle of the board, to the rear. Even with 18" for inspiring presence, that means your "flank" is only 18" away from your center line. That leaves a big gap.

True. However, you can choke off those flanks more than you think as long as you are ok with you're flankers being out of the LD bubble. Assuming your bubble is centered (not my default, I base dpeloyment off off terain and objectives) and your flank guard have a frontage 5 bases wide, you've got a unit that has 4 inches of frontage and needs to be 8 inches off the table edge to prevent march moves around them, that should place them 6 inches away from any front line units that are just within the bubble which is an all but guaranteed to be within charge range even with a wheel beforehand.

Come to think of it, there might be a tactic there.

20 Skavenslaves as a speedbump would be 40 points.

25 Clanrats with shields and Standard would be 121 points.

Anything that charges the slaves will get tied up for a turn with only a very small chance of being able to pull off an overrun. That would give the Clanrats time to respond and they'd have a decent'ish Ld from SiN.

Of course I could go for a Gorgonzola level of cheese and for 160 points take enough slaves and arrange them in a single file which would leave a flank of 3.333 inches on either side! Think I may save that one for the WFB equivalent of `ardboyz though.

-MaxGrav

In my opinion if you really want to protect a flank there is nothing better then a bus of 50 Skaven slaves hand weapons and shields, especially if your running a Bell. With an 18' inspiring presence those slaves can lock and tarpit almost any hammer unit in the game for 2 to 3 turns at least. Scouts, Normal or mid powered units will be there all game.

You are going to have more ranks than most units for a long time, so steadfast on a 10 if within the 18 inch range of your general.

Nevermind you can shoot into them and you dont randomize
Nevermind you can target spells into combats with Skaven Slaves
Nevermind they dont panic your other units except slave
Nevermind that even if they die they pop off another wound usually and the attacking unit does not pursue.

Remember to change to horde formation when you get an opponent really wittled down to add a few more crappy attacks!!

Lock em up, shoot em up or magic em up or just hold them there long enough for your A-Bomb to come eat them

Its 127 points for 50 Slaves with H/W and Shields and a Musician or 102 without shields. If you deploy two parallel to each other that flank is pretty much denied for the game. I find this a very useful strategy to force my opponents deployment. There not placing their 600Pt Uber unit opposite the Skaven slave bus to be stuck there all day.

Most my 2500 point lists have 2 Skaven Slave buses my current Tourney list runs 3. Fun to run but a torture to paint
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Bobofreak wrote:

In my opinion if you really want to protect a flank there is nothing better then a bus of 50 Skaven slaves hand weapons and shields, especially if your running a Bell. With an 18' inspiring presence those slaves can lock and tarpit almost any hammer unit in the game for 2 to 3 turns at least. Scouts, Normal or mid powered units will be there all game.

I second that! The most frightening thing in the skaven army is the unbreakable slave unit that is worth practically nothing in points when you finish it off after 3 turns. If you are going to take the horde list, which it sounds like maxgravity is, the tarpit unit is going to be key when not using the doom wheel and/or Abomination.

I agree that the skaven slave block can be nasty, we do need to take another look as I am almost certain you still randomize successful hits when shooting into a combat involving slaves though. Also the other draw back is that they must stay within the generals leadership to have a chance of staying.

No you do not randomize. Skaven FAQ Errata removes the last two lines of the expendable rule which is the randomization bit.

Good to know. Haven't read the FAQ's real close on them as I haven't played the army in a while. That certainly makes them even nastier.

a 50 rat slave unit ranked in 5's would be rather nasty when it did finally go boom I'd think.

I'm tempted by the slave blocks, but hoenstly don't know if I can do it in time for Shiloh. For those of you that don't know me, I'm the guy who got robbed (clenaed out my Lizzies), and I didn't get my insurance check until the middle of this month. As it is, I'm going to have to average a 100 painted models a week in order to be ready for Shiloh. Going with big blocks of slaves would up that to 125-150 models per week.

-MaxGrav