Foot Blood Angels 2k

So, I've been toying with an all foot Angels list ever since the book came out, I've just found it quicker and a little cheaper to go the mech route. However, what with nearing the completion of said mech list I've been looking at the foot variant again. What I'm currently looking at is this.

2000 Pts - Blood Angels Roster

HQ: Librarian (1#, 125 pts)
. . 1 Librarian @ 125 pts (Jump Pack; Blood Lance; Shield of Sanguinius)

HQ: Librarian (1#, 125 pts)
. . 1 Librarian @ 125 pts (Jump Pack; Blood Lance; Shield of Sanguinius)

Elite: Terminator Squad (5#, 235 pts)
. . 1 Terminator Squad @ 235 pts
. . . . 1 Sergeant
. . . . 3 Terminator
. . . . 1 Terminator with Cyclone Missile Launcher (Chain Fist)

Elite: Terminator Squad (5#, 235 pts)
. . 1 Terminator Squad @ 235 pts
. . . . 1 Sergeant
. . . . 3 Terminator
. . . . 1 Terminator with Cyclone Missile Launcher (Chain Fist)

Elite: Sanguinary Priest(s) (2#, 200 pts)
. . 1 Sanguinary Priest(s) @ 200 pts
. . . . 2 Sanguinary Priest in Power Armour (Jump Pack; Combi-Meltagun; Lightning Claw)

Troops: Assault Squad (10#, 230 pts)
. . 7 Assault Squad @ 230 pts
. . . . 1 Assault Marine with Meltagun
. . . . 1 Assault Marine with Meltagun
. . . . 1 Sergeant (Melta Bombs; Power Weapon)

Troops: Assault Squad (10#, 230 pts)
. . 7 Assault Squad @ 230 pts
. . . . 1 Assault Marine with Meltagun
. . . . 1 Assault Marine with Meltagun
. . . . 1 Sergeant (Melta Bombs; Power Weapon)

Troops: Assault Squad (10#, 230 pts)
. . 7 Assault Squad @ 230 pts
. . . . 1 Assault Marine with Meltagun
. . . . 1 Assault Marine with Meltagun
. . . . 1 Sergeant (Melta Bombs; Lightning Claw)

Heavy Support: Devastator Squad (5#, 130 pts)
. . 4 Devastator Squad @ 130 pts (Missile Launcher x4)
. . . . 1 Sergeant

Heavy Support: Devastator Squad (5#, 130 pts)
. . 4 Devastator Squad @ 130 pts (Missile Launcher x4)
. . . . 1 Sergeant

Heavy Support: Devastator Squad (5#, 130 pts)
. . 4 Devastator Squad @ 130 pts (Missile Launcher x4)
. . . . 1 Sergeant

Total Roster Cost: 2000

What this brings to the table: 34 Flying Angry Marines, 10 Angry Terminators, 16 Missiles per turn, 2 Lances, 6 Meltas, 2 Combi-Meltas, and plenty of mobile cover. The plan is to start the Libbies and Priests each with a Terminator unit. Get the Jump kiddies behind the Termies to get 4+ Cover and most likely walk forward turn one, jump over and eat face turn 2. In theory that should work in most deployments except DoW. 6" Walk + 12" Jump + 6" Assault puts me at the edge of my opponents deployment zone. Against anyone except straight gun lines hugging the board edge I should be able to hit something at least with the Lances and Meltas.

At this point I'm considering dropping the terminators for 1 more Claw assault squad, Scout squad w/ ML just so I don't have to worry about holding back my other Troops, and an extra naked Sang Priest to sit with the Devs. Not too sure yet, which way to go but both seem workable.

So, what do you think?

If you're going to use the terminator shield wall it seems like it'd be a good opportunity to try and work in one of the special characters - maybe Sanguinor..

List looks fine 'as is,' but since this is a list designed around hiding the soft, chewy bits it seems to synergize with jumping out a big combat beastie.

Problem, as always, is finding points. Maybe save them for a 2.5k.

I like the Terminators both because FNP and a 2+ Armor save is fun, and because they give me more missiles to throw around in a list that's a bit light on suppression fire, but they are very expensive (costing 5 points more than an entire new Assault Squad).

As to a big combat beast, I'm not sure that one is really necessary when you've got 90+ S5 I5 attacks from standard troops and their escorts. Sure making that 120+ attacks would be nice, but it seems like overkill honestly.

Though I do see your point about possibly saving the terminators for 2.5k, they may just have to wait for 'Ard Boyz or the inevitable bump up to 2.5k come 6th ed ...

The only thing I don't see if someone brings a elite fighting squad. I really like death squad. put them in a drop pod and you can kind of control who they will attack. Also put a chaplain in there sqaud and have one of your priest around and they reroll to hit and to wound.

As I said to Woodrow, the list doesn't really need an elite CC unit. Between the 30+ Flying FC/FNP Marines and 10 FC/FNP Terminators they're already murdering whatever they charge. I don't like Death Company for 2 Reasons. First is they're way too damn expensive. They cost the same as they did back when they had rending standard, and they don't now (they actually have to buy special weapons at this point). Second they are way too easy for your opponent to lead around since they can no longer be controlled. Yes they're probably gonna murder whatever they run into(especially if they have a Chappy) but when you're spending 160 points for the minimum sized unit sans upgrades, and 255 before they even become useful I'd rather just include another 10 Assault Marines that will also have FC/FNP, can be controlled, and still count as scoring.

Yeah, I wasn't saying don't do the termie wall - just that if you're going to do it then try a SC out to enhance the theme of the list (as you wind up having to hide the SCs anyways). It'll also split fire priority more, which always helps a foot list. "Do I shoot the termies, the assault marines behind them, or Sanguinor?"

The only bad thing about assuming that your wall of death is going to be a wall of death is that you're assuming they all make it across the board. I recognize that this treads into the realm of 'theoryhammer' and I don't ever enjoy where those arguments lead, but if one or two squads gets shot on the way in down to 2-3 models then having a choppy SC still makes that 'flank' an area to worry about and/or direct fire.

I agree with captain. Template weapons, executioners, psyker battle squads, and fast mobile armies would give it fits. Deep strike is an option, but officer of fleet and mystics ruin that. Ig is rare on the local scene but not overall.

I think it would be very a very fun list to play but not very competitive.

Wildeyedjester wrote:

I agree with captain. Template weapons, executioners, psyker battle squads, and fast mobile armies would give it fits. Deep strike is an option, but officer of fleet and mystics ruin that. Ig is rare on the local scene but not overall.

I think it would be very a very fun list to play but not very competitive.

I think you're giving it a bit too little credit. Does it need work? Absolutely, but you name any list and I can tailor a list to beat it pretty quick.

Sure the Executioner is worrisome but so is Melta to a Landraider (at least the executioner actually costs more than what it's killing lol), it's just something you have to deal with. Hopefully the Missile Launchers provide enough suppresive fire to keep it from shooting much before my melta gets there.

I'm not too worried about the PBS though, in our game you only got to use them twice(maybe 3 times?) thanks to my psychic hood and not Ld 8 (and at least one of those was because both my libbies perils'd themselves into early graves).

As far as mobile, this list is at least as mobile than anything except Eldar and Dark Eldar, and they give everyone fits when it comes to mobility.

Officer of the fleet is little threat as with DoA they'd end up coming in normally, don't forget the rerolls to come in from reserves as well as decreased scatter. Mystics are a real problem, but less common since they're wasted against most lists. Enjoy them while they last I guess... Honestly though the list plays better from the field than reserve. DoA is a tool not the point of the army.

That said I do need to find a way to get more bodies in there, definitely. 59 Infantry in a foot list seems a bit sparse.

I don't understand why people post army lists and tag them with, "What do you think?" and then when people post what they think they dedicate endless amounts of think-time to countering people's opinions of their list.

Why don't people end army lists posts with: "Who wants to argue with me?"

capnwoodrow wrote:

Why don't people end army lists posts with: "Who wants to argue with me?"

Because anybody that argues with Andy will be just...wrong.

It's because I'm looking for discussion on the list and the choices in it. If I wanted someone else to write my list for me there're plenty of places for that. Part of that discussion (imo) is defending my initial build so that others can have an idea as to where I'm coming from and why I feel the list works (or at least gets close). Then, the person I replied to would hopefully also defend theirs. You may think that's arguing, and to an extent it is, but it's an important part of my list building and game theory process that prevents me from following stupid half-assed ideas way past their usefulness. For example, if you look at my early mech lists they all had power fists. I used to be adamant about the inclusion of a fist in every marine unit, but through good discussions and disagreements, I realized they're not always the best choice. Something along those lines is what I hope for when I post lists and ask for opinions. I have no intent to offend or pick fights, all I'm looking for is some interaction that may prove beneficial to both sides.

an issue i see with the wall of death is location priority, in best circumstances, it assumes that you deploy second, in order for best positioning.

the reasoning being that 5 terminators base to base is roughly a 7.5 inch line, and thus you have two such lines for your assault squads to hide behind, or a single 16 inch (1inch gap between the two units) line. in pitched battle, your opponent is able to spread out across a six foot span, give or take. They can easily spread out crucial units to be just out of range of assault, or in flanking positions, given that hiding behind a 16 inch line will keep most of your jump packs centralized.

granted, i'm still young and inexperienced and don't know many other codexs than the Blood Angels, but outflanking and fast units will be easy to maneuver around your assault mob and put a high volume of shots into you while staying just out of melta range, let alone assault (depending on the range of weapon used).

the back field support of the devs is great, but the further the assault troops get away from them, the easier and more justifiable it is to swing around and take them out.

It almost feels like for this to work best, you need to be able to psych out your opponent, pointing the mob of assault squads and terminators at something they value, to the point that they are reacting to where you position the mob, rather than simply flanking and picking you apart at range.

What I was politely trying to tell you was that most people would be excited to see an all foot/jump pack marines list deployed before them at the start of a tournament . There are reasons why 5th edition is the kingdom of Mech.

Everyone builds a list to beat powerarmor - all other armies are secondary (with the exception of guard, nowadays) and that is something you should consider.

Here are some more specific things to consider with the foot blood angels list:
How do you chase down tyranids? How do you clear their bubble wrap? With no fists, what do you do when you finally get to the MC? What if it had been a Wraithlord?
How do you catch anything eldar or dark eldar? What if you happen to be playing objectives?
You mentioned I 'only' broke two of your units in our game with pbs- what if those had been juicy and pricy terminators. Are you also considering weaken resolve has a 36" range at leadership 9 and your hoods have a 24" range? Against a foot blood angels a guard players doesnt reserve and PBS would have broken units off the board on the first turn... Like your missile launcher units. A lot of guard players take 3 units of them...
How do you catch valkyries/vendettas?
Remember Lash of submission/plasma cannon obliterators?
What happens when your assault squad or termies get shot with guard veterans with 3 plasma guns from the back of a chimera?
What if you are playing a blood angels force? Fast, Shooty and you have Mephiston to deal with behind a rhino wall?
What do you do when you get assaulted by genestealers, banshees, harlequins, other anti marine assault units and you have nothing to hide inside of?

As I said, I think it will be a lot of fun for you to play it and I think it will win some games. I don't think it would fair well at a GT like patriot games or a national tournament. And I don't think it will win many of the smaller tournaments. If you decide to go ahead and buy and then build the list, cool. Just realize that its what most people want to play against, and you will have more problems to deal with than with your mech list.

I quote from the the comment listed under the Forum Title:

"Have an Army idea? Get list critiques and help each other out here!"


If this was all helping; I'd hate to see some actual sniping. There would be blood.

Seriously; though. I have been to other modeling websites where someone would post a photo of a model and ask "what do you think?" and a literal flood of people would proceed to tell that person how bad their model sucked in comparison with their own. Didn't they know better than to post something like that on their website? They need to pay closer attention to the people that are really in the know; those people who have been doing it for 20+ years.

Hopefully you can see the sarcasm in my previous comment. Other people other than just Hogs of War players have seen some of the comments made in these forums. These people have told me they are glad they are not in the hobby if this is what the hobby is about. I have been wondering the same thing myself.

Maybe my comment about arguing something with Andy being wrong started a bad trend. I was only joking, I have argued some points with Andy successfully; maybe once before.

I agree that having an all foot army in 5th Edition is maybe not a good idea. A younger player from Fort Smith told me once he was going to play an all foot Ultra Marine army and I responded "Welcome to the World of Lose" and then told him that mechanized armies are where it's at in 5th Edition. Are there nefarious money making schemes from GW involved in that plan? Perhaps, but that is just the conspiracy theorist in me saying that.

All I'm saying is that maybe the tone in this thread needs to be turned down.

If I had started this thread, Capnwoodrow would have closed it ages ago.

Just a clarification: I mean not a word of malice toward anyone and zero sniping. I was genuinely trying to be helpful. I'll moderate my own response to include only further points.

Andy is a good player who expects to do well from my interactions with him. I think a foot blood angels list would disappoint him in the end.

You're missing Jester's point. This isn't a discussion thread on whether or not foot SM armies are viable in 5th ed or not. It is a discussion about a person's list. If someone posts what they think will or will not work in an army list they aren't looking to be convinced, they are offering opinions - as they were asked to.

So if you say "I don't think this list will win a lot of games" you aren't being negative, you are just giving an opinion. Then when someone comes back and says "Ur wrong, this list will work" it forces the other person to either go A) "Great! Let's get a game up sometime and try it out" or B) "Actually, It probably won't work because of XYZ."

That's when the fun starts. "You said X will beat it? Whatever! My T will beat your X!" and the thread devolves in endless unit-countering which doesn't represent any sort of typical 40k game in the slightest.

@gamewizard - I hope me posting a response to something you said doesn't come across as negative. I don't mean it to be.

take some of this agressive novel writing and post on my dark eldar thread!

I dont have much dark eldar experience Blake! Sadly my advice might not be so hot there.

I admit my response was poorly written, upon second reading it comes off as very dismissive and more than a little argumentative. Sending posts from work without reading through them a second time is a bad idea. I'll say again, it was not my intent to offend or pick fights.

That aside, Jester's points are good and definitely drawbacks of being outside of vehicles. Wouldn't they be fine chasing down most Nids what with the JP equivalent of a free full fleet (obviously this excludes Nid Jumpers and Beasts which IIRC are fewer in the new book)? Unless I'm mistaken about the book's primary unit type. Fists would absolutely be better than the Claws against MCs, the issue was one of points more than anything. With S5 rerollable they should do okay against your average T5/6 MC (I hope ) but will definitely have trouble still with the harder ones.

I honestly don't think I can chase down eldar dark or otherwise with this list. I can only hope the missiles cripple/kill enough rides to cut their feet out from under them. That or maybe find a way to get more DSing Melta, but I'm not too sure honestly. Same goes for Vendettas but I think I can get away with largely ignoring them since I have no armor for them to threaten (again, I hope).

@SirHelnor Why would the Terminators need to be BtB? I believe they still give cover to units behind them even spread out to the 2" coherency. The two units together plus libbies and priests should make a 40+" wall. The denied flank is a big issue with foot lists, I'm hoping the added mobility of the JPs makes it less so.

@Woodrow I'm not looking for the bickering you often find on H-O, Warseer, or other larger forums. I enjoy discussion both on tactics and unit choices. This is mostly because it's free (and my dice can't decide to crap on my head in theory-hammer) but also because I can't get as many games in for playtesting as I'd like, so talking (or typing) through theoretical battles/encounters is the closest I get to honest playtesting sometimes.

@Blake I can take a look when I get home but without having a copy of the codex I won't be able to give you much more than what I can get through Army Builder or things that we've already talked about before.

PhantomPhoenix wrote:

@SirHelnor Why would the Terminators need to be BtB? I believe they still give cover to units behind them even spread out to the 2" coherency. The two units together plus libbies and priests should make a 40+" wall. The denied flank is a big issue with foot lists, I'm hoping the added mobility of the JPs makes it less so.

In my mind, i was thinking of completely obscuring the units, which would require BtB, but if a cover save is the goal, then this isn't an issue. Actually, this tactic may make even more sense, given that even with high strength/low AP shots, every single one of your units would have a 5+ save, and your opponent would have more targets to have to choose from, potentially spreading out the shots if they don't choose to focus on a single unit, thus each unit may loose one or two troops to shooting, rather than your entire terminator squad to focused fire.

being a (not so great) foot BA player myself, I still feel that the initial psych-out at deployment is a must, to get the best use out of your troops your going to want your opponent reacting to you, and perceived threats, rather than calmly giving your troops the run-around and picking them apart piecemeal.

an example of this would be the tournament we had last weekend. though my list was pretty much a joke (the two massive death companies) it freaked out my other two opponents enough that they deployed all of their troops in reaction to the mob, allowing me to own the table and smash them. They didn't really stand a chance, because them reacting rather than using their strengths allowed me to charge in there and do what I do. in my game with you, on the other hand, you exploited the weakness of the troops, and always stayed just out of range and tore them apart with gunfire. True, it took the whole game to get the two squads down to negligible numbers, but keep in mind that even with FnP standard assault squads are half the size of what I brought to the table