2000 point Raven Guard

Sorry for flooding with posts, but I got a lot of questions...

here's a starting point for the list I want to make, please critique it

HQ: Shrike

Chaplain- powerfist, jump pack

TROOPS:
10 tac marines, powerfist, lascannon, flamer, rhino
10 tac marines, powerfist, lascannon, flamer, rhino
5 Scouts with sniper rifles, camo cloaks
10 scouts, 4 shotguns, missile launcher, camo cloaks

ELITES:
Dreadnought, multimelta, close combat weapon, drop pod
Dreadnought, multimelta, close combat weapon, drop pod
5 Termanators, heavy flamer

FAST:
10 assault marines, flamer, plasma pistol, lightning claws
5 assault marines, flamer, lightning claws


HEAVY:
None

Total points: 1980....will fill the rest later


Traditionally, Raven Guard don't use heavy slot choices. I've read this wont cripple me as long as I get some tank busting options in there, which I think I did. I'll deepstrike the terms drop pod the dreads, and the rest will be fleeting across the board, or sniping from a distance. What do you think?

IT SUCKS! haha. ok. troll over.

Can your tac marines take melta instead of the lascannons? Granted they are much shorter range. I guess it depends on what you want to do. Also missile launchers are good for both armor and infantry killing in most cases and 12" more range iirc.

add meltabombs onto your troops if you can. not sure if it's 5 pts a model or 5 pts a squad.

give your termies a dedicated transport. you know, the land raider. make them assault termies with SS/TH

might take out the 5 man squad of assault marines to do that if you need. should get you the upgrade to the termies at least.

Other than that, nice solid list from my perspective. good anti-tank without heavy support choices.

Of course, i'm not a marine player. Just know what they can do from the other side of the board and I wouldn't like facing this list much. gogo fire prism small blast. lol

What does Shrike do? Haven't read up on him yet.

Shrike gives the whole army fleet...I wanted for the list to be fluffy, and to do so I didnt want to take a land raider....I wanted to make my termies assault, but its too expensive without a dedicated transport...they are kind of filler to be honest...Raven Guard's main aspect is assault marines so I dont want to take them out. I'm thinking instead of taking termies I may take some typhoon cruisers

That would make sense. Are those the missile pod hovercraft looking things?

Hmmm....I like it in general; just a few things kinda stick out to me:

1) The tac squads weapons. PF and Flamer say "Close range", Lascannon says "Extreme long range and I can't move." This can be seen as versatile or incongruous; LOL. Test it out, see how it goes; but in my experience its best to specialize with each given unit; so I might drop the PF and Flamer for more long range weapons, since your other stuff will probably cover the close range stuff pretty well. Or change out the Lascannon for something closer range if you want to put the Tac squads up in someones face with those Rhinos.

2) Scouts. I'd put the missle launcher in the squad with the sniper rifles. The squad won't want to move because of the sniper rifles being heavy weapons; so this should let you shoot the missles more often. Shotguns are close range weaponry, so if you're moving to close in to where you can use them the missle launcher won't get used. Also the camo cloaks might not be a great idea on the 10 man squad; if they aren't staying hunkered down in cover the points might be better spent elsewhere. Though I do have to admit I LOVE the cloaks; so I might keep them just cause myself. :-p

3) If you are taking regular termies, and not assault ones, maybe the heavy flamer isn't the best choice. I think they can fire heavy weapons while moving, so why not take something longer range to complement the 24" Storm Bolter shots which will probably be the majority of their attacks? I personally find me termies doing more shooting than assaulting when I play, even if I try and teleport them in close to the enemy.

4) Maybe switch one of those lightning claws on the assault marines to something more high strength/anti-armor? LCs tear up troops, but they might have issues against vehicles.

5) Also speaking of the assault marines; if they don't have a vehicle, I'm assuming they may be meant to deep strike in. If thats correct it might be better to take a Vanguard Vets squad instead of the 2 regular assault squads. RASs can't assault on the turn they come in; they just sit there and shoot. Vanguard Vets CAN assault, making them a lot more effective when deep striking.

bdix wrote:

Sorry for flooding with posts, but I got a lot of questions...

here's a starting point for the list I want to make, please critique it

HQ: Shrike

Chaplain- powerfist, jump pack

TROOPS:
10 tac marines, powerfist, lascannon, flamer, rhino
10 tac marines, powerfist, lascannon, flamer, rhino
5 Scouts with sniper rifles, camo cloaks
10 scouts, 4 shotguns, missile launcher, camo cloaks

ELITES:
Dreadnought, multimelta, close combat weapon, drop pod
Dreadnought, multimelta, close combat weapon, drop pod
5 Termanators, heavy flamer

FAST:
10 assault marines, flamer, plasma pistol, lightning claws
5 assault marines, flamer, lightning claws


HEAVY:
None

Total points: 1980....will fill the rest later


Traditionally, Raven Guard don't use heavy slot choices. I've read this wont cripple me as long as I get some tank busting options in there, which I think I did. I'll deepstrike the terms drop pod the dreads, and the rest will be fleeting across the board, or sniping from a distance. What do you think?

I agree with abbott. there's a lot of good ideas in there.

To follow his points.

EDIT: point 1 isn't very great. I realize that multiple heavy weapons is mostly devastator squads iirc. On a tac marine squad, take missile launchers. if you can take 1 for every 5 guys, do that, then combat squad them at the start with a missile in each squad. Remember, the more heavy weapons you can get out, the better, since they're your main anti-vehicle. Plus you can put 1 tac in the rhino and 1 on an objective or in cover. I'm leaving point 1 as i wrote it though.

1) Try multiple long range heavy weapons with both tac squads. however many lascans you can take then fill the rest in with missiles, or vice versa. missiles are more multi-purpose. IF you can, 2x missile 1x lascan would be ideal. Then they just sit on objectives and create a 36" bubble of hell no. in cover preferably. Plus you can fire 2 out of a rhino i think so you could fire both missiles at infantry or 1 missile 1 las at a vehicle.

2) I would personally take 3 squads of 5 if i could. each with sniper rifles and a missile launcher. that gives you 3 missiles and a bunch of sniper fire to lay on any targets you want. This also gives the enemy more targets to pick from. put them in good cover and lay waste.

3) Regular termies won't want a heavy flamer. Give them an assault cannon. rending + 4 shots = pwn. Almost as good as a twin linked one, especially since the termies have a good BS.

4) Assault marines murder troops as it is. Give them a PF so that they can hurt vehicles or insta-squish IC's. So many IC's don't have "immune to being murdalized" now.

5) Vanguard vets make far more sense for your list than the assault marines do. If everyone is fleet, they deep strike in, RUN, to get closer, then ASSAULT because they are fleet. Ass-marines should not be standing around shooting. So take vets and then fill in with assault marines that will START ON THE BOARD. This will give you the best bang for your point buck. That, and vanguard vets RAPE face. Take a PF here too.


There. now you should be well on your way.

I'd personally try to change the following (note I haven't checked points):

Tac squads with Sergeant with Combi-Melta+PF, Meltagun, Missile launcher, Rhino (or Razorback) - Combat squadded so 4 guys + ML guard an objective or just sit in cover.

You need 1 more drop pod to really maximize drop pod assault. I recommend it on a tac squad, so you can drop in 2 meltaguns close in on turn 2+. That would put you dropping 2 Dreadnoughts in on turn 1 also.

Vanguard Vets aren't amazing in non-BA armies because they scatter 2d6. They also can't run AND assault the turn they come in, only 1 of the two options, chosen before they come in.

Cyclone ML might be better than AssCan on the terminators. Assault terminators is probably better than both however.

(from another thread) Your dreadnoughts don't get fleet.

Right now you just seem light on anti-armor.

thanks for the feedback...those are the things I'm looking for, since im brand new to crafting sm lists. I'll make another attempt later today and see what yall think

what would you suggest for anti-armor without taking a heavy slot? Or maybe I should take a devastator squad?

Land Speeders.

shrike-195
chaplain, jump pack, powerfist 130

10 man tac squad, powerfist,combi-melta, meltagun, missile launcher, rhino 245
10 man tac squad, powerfist,combi-melta, meltagun, missile launcher, drop pod 245
5 man scout squad, sniper rifles, camo cloak, missile launcher 100
5 man scout squad, 4 shotguns, powerfist, camo cloak 115
5 man scout squad, sniper rifles, camo cloak, missile launcher 100

Dreadnought, multimelta, closecombat with heavy flamer, drop pod-locater beacon 160
Dreadnought, multimelta, closecombat with heavy flamer, drop pod 150

10 man assault squad, flamer, plasma pistol, thunder hammer 245
5 man assault squad, flamer, thunder hammer, 140

5 man devastator squad, plasma cannon, lascannon, missile launcher 165


how does that looks? does that give me more anti-armor option and get rid of some range confusion?

^^^^^ just saw your landspeeder post....what is a good loadout for landspeeders designed to bust tanks? I saw typhoon looks pretty nasty

EDIT: It comes out to be about exactly 2000 if I replace the devastators with a squad of 2 landspeeders with typhoon missile system...I'm assuming thats the good one, or assault cannon, and they are the same price so

EDIT #2: Do i want to take all those thunder hammers? The model is pretty awesome for them is the main reason I am taking them

One more question, what kind of balance do I want to have when I scale my army? Like with Tau its a railgun for everyone 500 points. I know for SM that you want to have a troop choice for every 500, but what about the rest

Typhoon rapes lots of tanks. in general you want the melta (multi?) and twin missile pods. 6 krak missiles busts lots of crap and melta > AV14 plus they're fast enough to get there to use it.

That is, if Typhoon is the melta/2 missile load out. I think it is but not 100% sure on that.

EDIT:

Oh, and take the TH/SS combo on all your assault termies. it's godly.

Just got to where I can respond (typing on an iPhone isn't fun).

I'd go MM/HF on the Land Speeders, for dual purpose.

I don't see Assault Terminators in your list like someone else referenced, but I may just be blind.

I'd personally try to get a Librarian in there for Null Zone, Psychic Hood, etc.

The shotgun scouts just seem lost. I'd go with more sniper/ML scouts, or get a Land Speeder Storm for them.

The Devastator squad is all over the place. Try triple ML and 2 ablative guys.

I dont raelly want to take devastators, could i replace that squad with a typhoon landspeeder and get the same tank beating power?

3 MLs in a Dev squad give you 2 hits at 48", S8, with 2 ablative wounds and a 4+ cover save. A Land Speeder by comparison will die or lose shooting ability to S8 hits pretty reliably, and can die to S4. If you're committed to no Devastators you'll likely have to lose assault squads to fit in MM Land Speeders, or accept the fact that you can't reliably crack Rhinos outside of assault. Trust me, from running Thunderwolf Cav, that's a pretty hefty disadvantage.

Personally, if I really wanted to run Raven Guard, I'd use the Blood Angel codex for jump packs as Troops. If you're sold on Codex:SM with Shrike, I'd recommend trying to fit in assault terminators or other troops to truly take advantage of Fleet.

ill give the devastators a chance then

Keep in mind, fluff steered you towards this army. If you want to take Typhoon speeders, take them. On mathhammer, you do a lot better with the dev squads, but if you're not excited about them then don't take them.

Put a speeder or three in your list and try it out. If it explodes before doing anything for 10 games, look at a dev squad.

I've read that ravenguard occasionally take dev squads anyway, and land speeders are that fluffy either so I'm sure it would even out....that being said land speeders look pretty wicked lol

shrike-195
chaplain, jump pack, powerfist 130

10 man tac squad, powerfist,combi-melta, meltagun, missile launcher, rhino 245
5 man tac squad, powerfist,combi-melta, rhino 125
5 man scout squad, sniper rifles, camo cloak, missile launcher 100
5 man scout squad, sniper rifles, camo cloak, missile launcher 100
-drop pod 35

Dreadnought, multimelta, closecombat with heavy flamer, drop pod-locater beacon 160
Dreadnought, multimelta, closecombat with heavy flamer, drop pod 150

10 man assault squad, flamer, plasma pistol, thunder hammer 245
5 man assault squad, flamer, thunder hammer, 140

5 man devastator squad, 3 ML, chain sword 135

6 assault terminators with thunder hammers and storm shields 240

totals exactly 2000 points

My plan is to attach shrike to the termies at the beginning of the game to allow them to infiltrate. Turn one Shrike jumps out of squad and into cover. Termies are already in opponents backfield tearing stuff up. Dreads pop in for support turn one, all while I slowly work the Rhinos up both sides. Scouts will stay in cover and snipe infrantry. Assualt squads will stay behind the rhinos taking cover from it. Chaplain will go with 5 man squad while shrike will stay in cover until the 10 man squad gets to him. Devs will stay in cover and tankhunt

Shrike makes army fleet. Ass-termies are fleet now. Run and assault. Good stuff. :-)

too bad I cant test this out yet....I worked on my table tonight so that maybe we can actually play a full game on it next time! Also, I really want to get a game of Drunkhammer in on it soon.

We can go to chg any time broham. :-)

WE CANT GET WASTED AT CHG....just kidding, but really.

who says? lmao

Hey B, what's in that mysterious white cup?

"Soda"

lmao