Space Wolves are going to eat your face!

So, most of the Space Wolves codex has leaked by now, and I thought it'd be fun to discuss possible builds. We don't have to mess around with exact points. Let's focus more on the conceptual aspects of it.

If you want to read up on what will most likely be in the new codex, go to Warseer:

Space Wolf Thread

I wanted to start by speculating about a truly slavering horde. Here goes.

HQ:

Canis Wolfborne: I know some people don't like the idea or the model, but Fenrisian Wolves with LD8 is going to be murder.
Wolf Priest: Preferred Enemy against infantry, yes please. Saga of the Wolf- makes those Fenrisian wolves I5.
Rune Priest: These are almost mandatory with the new powers.

Troops:
Fenrisian Wolves: Thanks to Canis these are troops, though they are not scoring. They're fast with space marine numbers (except the save), and they're only 8 points. With the proliferation of cover in 5th, they can move to terrain in the first turn and assault on the next. They'll make great flankers. Your opponent needs to deal with them, especially at I5, and if you lose them they were only 8 points a piece. They should give your other guys a turn or two to get stuck in. If your opponent ignores the wolves, I think he'll rue that decision. The wolves will glance vehicles to death and decimate smaller units of any troop type because they'll attack first.

Blood Claws: I usually run a largely Blood Claw force, but I think they'll be seeing more of their Grey Hunter brethren with the new codex. In this version of the list, I'll run them in my LRR with the wolf priest. 40 attacks hitting on 3+ against infantry will be nasty.

Grey Hunters: These little buggers finally became viable. They are relatively cheap and very versatile. I'll probably run two 9 man squads with a Wolf Guard.

Elites:

Wolf Guard: I'm going to use these primarily for the leadership and the ridiculous load out. A wolf guard with a frost axe has 4 strength 5 PW attacks for around 38 points.

Lone Wolf: I like the concept of these guys, and they don't appear to be overpriced. They will lose their effectiveness against MEQ and IG, but demons, orks (warboss murder), and nids should be aware of them. I also love the kill point rule.

Fast Attack:

Thunderwolf Cavalry: Just to finish up the vibe I'm going for with this list, I must have these. I'm not sure how I'm going to model them. I've thought of chariots pulled by wolves instead of the big wolf model. I think this would look cool and make Canis stand out. As long as you don't get carried away with gear, you can use wound allocation with these guys very effectively. Only a Vindicator or equivalent will be able to one shot them, and the Rune Priest can give them a 5+ cover save. Mostly, I think these guys will be exceptionally fun and scary.

Heavy:

LRR: It has a transport capacity of 12, and nothing's more fun than watching Khorne Berzerkers wet themselves.

Predator: You may have noticed I don't have much long range firepower. Hopefully, this will help. These die very easily in CC, but if my opponent is worried about killing it, I'm going to eat his face with the rest of my army. I hope.

To some degree this is a themed army, but I still think it will be viable. I'm sure it will get murdered sometimes, but I think it has a solid chance to do some serious damage once I learn how to play it.


So, what builds are you looking at? What looks fun? What looks vicious (cough, Ragnar with a Wolf Priest and GH in a LRR)? I'm just interested in what people are considering. By the way, I have no idea how many points the above army would be, so let's just ignore that for now. Also, please don't complain about the rules (good or bad).

I'm thinking of buying the codex together with the standard SW guys. I.e. blood claws, grey hunters, wolf guards and build the army around Ragnar and drop pods. Very direct, in your face kind of army. Probably want to pick up some dreads too. Most definitly will change my mind many times too:)

LRR: It has a transport capacity of 12, and nothing's more fun than watching Khorne Berzerkers wet themselves

Blah why would i want more than 10, then id have to get another brick of dice(9 berzerkers will make you roll a whole brick then you just have your powerfist.). The new codex is pretty cool. Im just tired of humans and each Space Marines codex making the older ones look crappy.

So I was looking at some more of the rumors, and I've decided that if you want to go with the most uber unit possible, this would be it.

Ragnar, Wolf Priest, 9 Grey Hunters with 1 Wolf Guard, all in a LRR.

It is going to cost close to half of your points unless you go over 2,000 points, but it's going to kill everything, including a 30 strong Ork unit, down to the man. It does rely on some good rolling from Ragnar's d3 attack ability. Let's assume you roll a 3 or 4 on that, giving you +2 attacks:

Ragnar: I believe he has 5 or 6 attacks, which will be at strength 6 and I6 on the charge. That's at least 7 attacks on the charge.
Wolf Priest: on the charge that should be 5 S5 I5 Power attacks.
Wolf Guard: with a Frost Blade, that's 5 S6 I5 Power attacks.
Grey Hunters: assuming standard load out with one power fist, that's 36 regular attacks at S5 and I5 and 3 Power Fist attacks.

In total, that's 56 attacks. 12 of them are S6 power weapons, 5 are S5 power weapons, and 3 are S9 PF.

Oh yeah, and if you choose infantry as your preferred enemy, everyone hits on a 3+.
Lastly, they're Fearless.

I would never run this due to the points sink and how common Mech armies are, but if you ran this against Orks, it would be absolutely murder.

Just a thought.

Later,
Monkey

This codex does present some pretty gross combo's. I have always been a fan of Wolf Guard. I am one of the wolf players around here that takes WG squad leaders. Usually with my blood claws and my scouts. They are going to be expensive but I like to use one monster expensive unit to scare opponents with. Wolf Guard squad tricked out right with jump packs, PW's and plasma melta whatever. Point sink yes but could be fun to use.

I am not sold yet on the Thunderwolf guys. I am going to make some because they will rule in Apoc games but I am not sure yet.

My list will feature generic characters
Lord and Rune Priest

Blood Claws in a rhino

Grey Hunters in rhinos

Wolf Guard in Razorbacks

Maybe Long fangs (since they are cheap)

heavy support will be land raider or crusader
and some vindicator action. One of the above will be with my little characters.

It is going to be gross all the way around. But that being said, I already though space wolves were gross and my general approach to playing them won't change that much. A unit of space wolves before would have killed a whole unit in a turn and they will just do that again, now.

From an opponents view point, the extra points you would dump on characters would just be a waste. I don't know of many units that can stand against just a unit of blood claws with WG by itself.

What i am concerned about is the psychic powers they have inherited. Not only do I have to deal with the CC, but now I am going to have to deal with the most offensive psychic powers in the game?

People will for certain have to look at taking a psyker now as opposed to some other hard hitters. I think the powers are no different than the others when it comes to nulling the. Now you just have something in the army to do it. Regular SM players will have to choose between a librarian or a chaplain I think. Or take both and no captain.

I just want the freakin book. I really can't wait. Been playing wolves since rogue trader. Just another chapter in the saga as far as I am concerned.

I've been reading through the copy up at Castle House for a while now, and I've gotta say I've been tempted to stray from the way of Chaos. I love the fluff, space vikings rock just a little, but the Wolf Guard and Cavalry are what really appeal to me. Now the one thing that's been bugging me the whole damn time has been the Blood Claws. I can't for the life of me find out why they're good... Since the Grey Hunters have BP/CCW/Bolter instead of just the BP/CCW so after that initial charge the GH have the distinct advantage, what with WS 4. Now I can see how that Berserk Charge rule would be nice initially, with the majority of your opponents at WS4 or higher I simply can't justify these guys over their more accomplished brothers.

Blood claws were the obvious choice in the last edition, but grey hunters have received a bump in this edition. What was a no brainer before is a more difficult choice now.

+2 attacks on the charge is nothing to be scoffed at, but the scouts did loose their ability to have eleventy-one close combat weapons in the squad as far as I know. They used to get these +2 attacks with counter attack too. That's why I hated them.

Ok, that's what I figured, I'd heard about blood claws being good, but recently all I've found is people referring to them as 'blood clots' lol. However, that aside, with Thunderwolf Cavalry, Long Fangs, and Rune Priests, I highly doubt the space puppies are going to be hurting from a little decision making among it's troop choices.

Wildeyedjester wrote:

Blood claws were the obvious choice in the last edition, but grey hunters have received a bump in this edition. What was a no brainer before is a more difficult choice now.

+2 attacks on the charge is nothing to be scoffed at, but the scouts did loose their ability to have eleventy-one close combat weapons in the squad as far as I know. They used to get these +2 attacks with counter attack too. That's why I hated them.

Will the extra attack on the charge make up for WS 3 though? They hit worse and are easier to hit. They do have close combat weapons which should give them A1 + CCW + 2 on the charge, i.e. 4 attacks. Grey hunters would get 3 but with WS 4. Someone down with math-hammer should hammer this out:)

What bugs me though is that you can't get 12 wolves into either a drop pod nor a rhino, meaning I can't take a team of 10 to get the upgrades unless I forgo independent characters or an added wolf guard. Bummer.

Nice to be able to stick terminators in rhinos and drop pods though :)

In the newest edition, the way to run blood claws is with a Wolf Priest. Hitting on 3+ with all of those attacks will be absolute murder. Yes, they will die when your opponent attacks back, but you'll kill so many it won't matter a whole lot. If you pick your targets well it won't be too bad either. Don't assault the other army's assault unit. Regular marines won't have enough attacks to put a real dent in the unit. The key will be getting the assault though. As WildEyed said the loss of berzerk charge on the counter-charge was big. They are still useful though. You can use them as a hammer that your opponent must deal with.

WS3 is almost irrelevant. They still hit other marines on 4s, so they don't hit any worse. Even if only 2 Blood Claws get to the IG squad, hitting on 4's or 3's still ends in any non-stubborn IG squad running away.

It's on the attack back that WS3 starts to matter. Against WS4 armies, which would be most of the armies you're going to face, you will lose more guys than if you were WS4. You also don't do as many wounds to other WS3 armies because you hit on a 4+.

I still think BCs are viable. They just have to be used well. GHs will be more durable and consistent.

WS 3 sounds like a bigger draw back to me than one might think. Now, keep in mind that I'm not the most knowledgeable outside the realms of Chaos, but any of my HQ of any worth are WS7+. Your standard marines(Grey Hunters included) are going to be hitting them on 4s and taking it on 3s, BCs on the other hand are hitting on 5s but still eating it on 3s. Now in the case of running them with a Wolf Priest that doesn't make a difference, but any other formation where they hit on normal WS they seem pretty screwed to me. I guess in that case just don't send them HQ hunting, but it still seems pretty harsh...

WS3 only hurts vs Ork hordes. Hitting a 10 man Space Marine squad and you might have 1 more wound to save.

Almost nothing is WS7+ really. Demons are about it. Princes, Bloodthirsters, etc.

Generally, if you've gotten your BCs in h-t-h with something of WS7 or greater that's not in a unit, you've made a mistake somewhere or been forced into it. Against characters in units, just ignore them and try to get the unit to run and drag the big guy along with them.

Also, if you run BCs, you have to understand that they're going to die. You just have to make sure that they take something comparable down with them or that they take out a priority target.

Later,

Monkey

Quote :

if you run BCs, you have to understand that they're going to die.

That's one thing I always have trouble accepting... I've just gotten to the point where I don't care about my rhinos and termicide, after almost a year of playing the army. Also, I've been wondering, how are your Thunderwolf Cavalry coming Monkey?

They're not yet. Right now it's more of the planning stage. I'm trying to find another model to sub for the wolf. I was thinking about making a chariot type model, but I think it might actually look sillier than the giant wolf. I will be buying Canis and likely running him with Fenrisian Wolves to start out. They'll soak up some wounds as he goes forward to smash.

I'd really rather not spend $200 on a single unit if I could help it. I also think some sort of converted version would help the look of my army, which is well-painted but only slightly converted.

I will be running them, though, in some incarnation. The question will be when.

Hey Monkey, here is a pic of the Warmachine Hordes Circle Oberos that I was talking about.

http://privateerpress.com/files/products/MorraigMtdClipped.png

The wolf is on a 40mm base, I believe. I don't know if you would want to try to convert this or not. There is also a three wolf unit for $50 in the same faction.

Here is the link to the three unit. I don't know if the riders are molded or if they are glued on.

http://privateerpress.com/files/products/circle-orboros/units/tharn-wolf-riders-unit.png

I like those in the second set. I just wonder if they're the right size. Do you think they'd be comparable to Canis's mount in size?

Hey monkey I found a wolf from the same set that's almost guaranteed to be bigger. The only downside? It doesn't have anything saddle-like... Now if you didn't want one it may be perfect. I've been considering throwing a few Thunderwolf Cavalry together just for shits and giggles, and this is what I was planning on using.

http://www.miniaturemarket.com/inc/sdetail/357308

Monkey wrote:

I like those in the second set. I just wonder if they're the right size. Do you think they'd be comparable to Canis's mount in size?

Isn't Canis' mount huge? I don't think they are the same size. I haven't seen the actual model of Canis' mount yet but I think they are slightly smaller.

Those riders are roughly equivalent to an Empire Fast Cav handgunner so I am pretty sure those wolves are horse sized, roughly.

I believe all those wolves are on 40mm round bases.

They are, I've painted up several of the CO models. They are way cool, if only I was into Warmachine.