Is a Tzeentch Themed Chaos Marine army viable

I was just wondering if anyone has seen or had any success with a Tzeentch themed Chaos Marine army. I have not won a gmae with mine since the new Chaos codex came out and I am on the verge of selling it on Ebay.

You can see the models I currently own here. http://www.lglogan.com/basictraining/dom.html

I am willing to buy more models if I can make this army viable again. I know I need Rhinos other than that I am truly at a loss as to what I need to do now.

Any suggestions are more than welcome.

I haven't played against an all tzeenth marines list since the end of 4th edition. I got my rear handed to me in a major tournament by them, and they guy went on to win players choice with his army. They always struck me as a fun list to play, but on a tournament level I'm not sure how they would stack up currently. Their AP3 bolters probably did take a hit with all the cover saves in 5th... much like the plasma gun.

How far are you taking the Tzeentch theme?

Because i have a friend who plays a Tzeentch army and he seems to do alright.
I think to key to success with them is to use the Rubric marines as a support element for regular CSM.

That is something I was thinking of doing,. I am looking at fitting in CSM with the TS, I think that alone will make my list more effective and I can still give them the Icon of Tzeentch.

I think Tz Marines will struggle in the same way most armies struggle now - Mech. You don't have a lot of range vehicle pop on a list like that.

Also, you'll have a harder time with horde lists since your main benefit (AP3) is lost on gaunts and orks.

Not to boo-hoo. Tzeentch is perfectly viable. You'll just have to play smart, maximize your target priority. You're on the right track by getting some Rhinos. Use the lesser daemons to sit on objects and you'll be sitting in a pretty good spot.

I would recommend breaking the Lessers into two small squads. I think 65 points gets you 5 of them. It's a good way to claim an objective w/o giving up a CSM squad.

Capnwoodrow,

I think that Splitting up my lesser daemons is an excellent idea, thank you very much.

Glad i'm not just all smoke and mirrors

I did it in my chaos army and I love it. Stack them up in some area terrain and get a nice smooth 4+ cover save on them.

I have toyed around with a Tzeentch force and it seems to me that it would be a bit tricky. The pure 1ksons cult troops are rock hard at ranged. They have a 3+/4++ so they are ALMOST as survivable as a Plague Marine - especially against battle cannons and plasma. Their shooting is flat out awesome - they are Slow and Purposeful and they aren't hindered by the fact that their bolters are rapid fire. The ap3 on the bolter is really stout. I have made entire units of marines go away.

That said, they do fall flat in two areas - close combat and vs. armor.

In hand to hand these guys are just not going to cut it. They have one attack apiece vs. a regular CSM's 2. Granted they do have a sorcerer with a force weapon but it just isn't enough. These guys can be a good tar pit until help comes, but don't expect them to win the day in CC.

Vs. heavy mech this unit is lacking as well. Yes, you can give the sorc a S8 AP1 shot but it is not melta. Also, he has to roll psychic test, roll to hi, roll to pen, and then roll on the damage chart. Not very reliable for what it is.

The best way that I could think of to do a Tzeentch themed force would be like this -

Daemon Prince with MoT - give him two sorc powers - Warptime and something else
Chaos Lord with MoT - Give him the DeathScreamer. I got shot at by one of these at the Waaagh and it is just unsettling. D6 S4 AP3 shots is crazy. And when it gets into hth it is still a daemon weapon - D6 Power Weapon attacks! Scary

For elites I wiould take aunit of MoT Terminators. They will have a 2+/4++ - very nice. Arm em up as normal - some combi melta, chain fist, maybe a heavy flamer. Will be nice and stout. You can Deep Strike without worry about scatter because of all the icons you will be toting.

Troops I would take 2 units of 1kSons in Rhinos w/ combi-meltas. That will help with the lack of anti tank

I would also take 2 units of Regualr CSM w/ MoT - load them up with a melta each for some extra anti tank

AFter that I would just take whatever else you thought you needed - maybe a nice blue defiler or vindicator - whatever floats your boat.

A tzeentch army is going to have a pretty small model count but it will be pretty stout and able to dish out some punch - especially at range.

Thanks Big D those are some good ideas and I think i will take those with the lesser daemon suggestion above to see what I can come up with.

Ok here is what I have come up with the advice given thus far. Let me know what you think.

Disciples of Magnus 2000 Points

Daemon Prince (205 Pts)
Wings, MoT, Warptime, Wind of Chaos

Chaos Terminator Lord (160 Pts)
Death Screamer, Twin Linked Bolter, MoT

Terminators X4 150 Pts
Chain Fist x1; Power Weapon x3, Combi-plasma x2, Twin Linked Bolter X2, Heavy Flamer x1

Thousand Sons X8 (304 Pts)
Personal Icon
1 Aspiring Sorceror
Doombolt
1 Rhino
Combi-melta

Thousand Sons X8 (304 Pts)
Personal Icon
1 Aspiring Sorceror
Doombolt
1 Rhino
Combi-melta

Chaos Space Marines X8 (250 Pts)
Meltagun, Icon of Tzeentch
1 Aspiring Champion
Bolt Pistol, CCW, Melta Bombs
1 Rhino
Combi-melta

Chaos Space Marines X8 (250 Pts)
Meltagun, Icon of Tzeentch
1 Aspiring Champion
Bolt Pistol, CCW, Melta Bombs
1 Rhino
Combi-melta

Summoned Lesser Daemon X9 (117 Pts)

Predator (130 Pts)
Autocannon; Las Cannon Sponsons

Predator (130 Pts)
Autocannon; Las Cannon Sponsons

Total Cost: 2000

The biggest problem with a Tzeentch based army is that the fluffier you make it the worse it gets. This is particularly evident if you plan on running Ahriman, partly because the Tsons Magnus kicked him out due to the Rubric of Ahriman leaving him with only his immediate followers, and partly because Ahri hated all forms of chaos mutation which seriously limits the units you can use. That means no Daemon Princes, no Oblits, no Possessed, etc. Ignoring that, the Tsons, and almost all of Tzeentch's followers, are mostly sorcerors. Which kinda puts Chaos Lords, Raptors, anything even remotely Khorne, and to an extent terminators out of the question. That said, if fluff isn't your thing, the Mark of Tzeentch is pretty damn amazing on anything that already has a 5+ Inv or Psykers.

Now for your army list, your Daemon Prince is solid, in fact this is one of 2 ways I always build mine. The Lord though, I would want to change to a Sorceror with MoT, Familiar, Icon, Bolt of Change, Doombolt, and Warp Time. With one very heavy damage "in your face" DP, your Sorc would be able to sit back and rain death on both tanks and infantry as he saw fit and still be able to rock it in melee should the need arise. I would also want to split my Daemons into 2 units instead of one larger one. Other than that, for a Tzeentch army I like it, I've always struggled with my AspSorc's and whether to give them BoC or Doombolt. Might also toy with Chaos Glory on the CSMs so that the Termies could get MoT.

I have been retoling the list for a few days now. I have managed to get the Icon of Tzeentch for my Terminators. They were always supposed to have it I just forgot to add it in. My list is a Tzeentch themed list but not a Thousand Sons list, that is why I call them the Disciples of Magnus. The Thousand Sons units are just renegade Thousand Sons sorcerers who have joined this warband of Tzeentch devotees.

I am still looking to maybe split the Daemons up as well as add another combi-plasma for the Termies but I need to find the points first.

Here is the list in it's current state. I am also working on an option with out the Lord and having 9 Terminatos instead.

Disciples of Magnus 2000 Points

Daemon Prince (205 Pts)
Wings, MoT, Warptime, Wind of Chaos

Chaos Terminator Lord (160 Pts)
Death Screamer, Twin Linked Bolter, MoT

Terminators X4 180 Pts
Chain Fist x1; Power Weapon x3, Combi-plasma x1, Twin Linked Bolter X2, Heavy Flamer x1, Icon of Tzeentch

Thousand Sons X8 (304 Pts)
Personal Icon
1 Aspiring Sorceror
Doombolt
1 Rhino
Combi-melta

Thousand Sons X8 (304 Pts)
Personal Icon
1 Aspiring Sorceror
Doombolt
1 Rhino
Combi-melta

Chaos Space Marines X8 (230 Pts)
Meltagun, Icon of Tzeentch
1 Aspiring Champion
Bolt Pistol, PF
1 Rhino
Combi-melta

Chaos Space Marines X8 (220 Pts)
Meltagun, Icon of Tzeentch
1 Aspiring Champion
Bolt Pistol, PW
1 Rhino
Combi-melta

Summoned Lesser Daemon X9 (117 Pts)

2 Obliterators (150 Pts)


Predator (130 Pts)
Autocannon; Las Cannon Sponsons

Total Cost: 2000