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 My First Army: Chaos

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Whirlpool
Eldar with a tramp stamp
Whirlpool


Posts : 47
Join date : 2011-12-20
Location : Bentovnille

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PostSubject: My First Army: Chaos   My First Army: Chaos Icon_minitime24th December 2011, 5:35 pm

I've been trying to figure out what kind of build I should have for my starter Chaos army. I want a little bit of everything in terms of offensive/defensive ranged/close combat capabilities. I think this will help me get a feel for the game much faster. I don't care about being super competitive right now, but a strong army would be nice. I tried to get a build of around 1250 points so I could have room to work with in a 1500 point game. I am completely new to this so I could have just wasted a few hours of my life building a trash army. Any input and suggestions would be great! Here's what I have right now:




Daemon Prince 110pts 160/165pts
-Wings: +20
-Mark of Slaanesh: +10
-Warptime:+25/ or Lash of Submission: +20



20 Marines- 2 squads of 10 15pts ea 420pts
+10 1x Meltagun
+5 1x Flamer
+15 Aspiring Champion
+5 Twin linked bolter
+25 Power fist
(1 or both squads could be replaced with possessed)


10 Noise Marines or 2 5 man squads 20pts ea 245pts/320pts
+40 1x Blastmaster
+5 9x sonic blasters



Rhino x2 or x3 35pts ea 100pts/150pts
+15 Havoc Launcher




Dreadnought x2 90pts ea 190pts
-2x close combat weapon with 1x heavy flamer
+5 heavy flamer




Defiler 150pts 150pts
-close combat arm (+1 attack)
-reaper auto cannon

Total: 1440/1265




Additional HQ: Abaddon The Despoiler 275pts, Typhus 225pts, or Kharn The Betrayer 165pts
What would be better for my build, or who is better, and would having more than 1 HQ be a good idea?

From most wanted to least wanted I would also like to include or replace units with the following:


Terminators: 1 squad of 10 30pts ea
(optional) lightning claws x8: +10 pts ea
2 reaper autocannon +25 pts ea


Possessed Chaos Marines: Squad of 10 or 20 26pts ea
(replace squads of Chaos Marines)


Khorne Berserkers: Squad of 10 21pts ea


Chaos spawn: Squad of 3 40pts ea


Havocs: Squad of 5 15pts ea
+4 Missile launchers (20pts ea) or +4 Lascannon (35pts ea)


Vindicator: 125pts
+5 Dirge caster
+15 Havoc Launcher





Heres the formations I had in mind for basic offense and defense. I thought this might help give some insight on how I plan to utilize the troops. I'm leaning toward making the defiler more of an assault unit rather than support, but I don't know how it will work out. The noise marines will support and hopefully help defend, Dreadnoughts are assault/ first strike, and Chaos marines and/or possessed with their Rhinos are assault/ fast attack. The Daemon prince could be anything I suppose, depending on the situation. I might be wrong about all this, so any suggestions would help. I would like to incorporate some terminators instead of dreadnoughts if it would make a better build, but it would cut down on my raged capabilities. I do have some ranged attacks with Rhinos and Marines with a Defiler to back them up, so would some heavy infantry with Lightning Claws be better than a couple of Dreadnoughts?

my basic army list:
I could take out 1 or both dreadnoughts for other troop types I couldn't fit in.

Dreadnought Dreadnought


Rhino Rhino Rhino
^ ^ ^
Chaos Marines Noise Marines Chaos Marines
or possessed or possessed


Daemon Prince


Defiler





(everything I would like to have):


Chaos Spawn x3

5x or 10x 5x or 10x
Berserkers Abaddon Berserkers


Dreadnought Defiler Dreadnought


10x Terminators

Rhino Vindicator Rhino
^ ^ ^
Chaos Marines 10x Noise Marines Chaos Marines
or possessed or possessed
10x 10x


Daemon Prince

5x Havocs


...sorry for being so long winded on this!

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DreadArchon
Necron Pariah visiting a shrink
Necron Pariah visiting a shrink
DreadArchon


Posts : 117
Join date : 2011-06-14
Age : 32
Location : Fort Smith, AR

My First Army: Chaos Empty
PostSubject: Re: My First Army: Chaos   My First Army: Chaos Icon_minitime26th December 2011, 10:04 am

Looks like a fairly good starting force. Coupla points

10x Noise Marines @1250 w/2 other full squads is a bit much. If you are looking for a base of Fire/Objective squad I would try

10x CSM
-Plasmagun
-Autocannon
-Icon of Chaos Glory
-Aspiring Champ
-Powerfist
225 pts i think

Since you are chaos marine you have CC and ranged abilities standard and squads like this make AV11 cry

The DP can go either way with warptime or Lash. Unfortuanly lash suffers from the everybody in vehicles problem

The CSM squads...
- no need for the TL bolter, BS4 is enough
- Daemonic Possession Rhinos, theses are the chariots of the gods and Havoc Launchers are optional

Dreads
-Fun little trick, 2 dreads with missile lauchers/CC arms right next to each other. If they Fire Frenzy they can ping frags of each other.

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DreadArchon
Necron Pariah visiting a shrink
Necron Pariah visiting a shrink
DreadArchon


Posts : 117
Join date : 2011-06-14
Age : 32
Location : Fort Smith, AR

My First Army: Chaos Empty
PostSubject: Re: My First Army: Chaos   My First Army: Chaos Icon_minitime26th December 2011, 10:14 am

Im going to do this in 2 posts for clarity
Part 2

-1 HQ is plenty @1250 and often a 2nd doesnt show up until AFTER 2000 in marine armies. In your current build I would not advise any Special Characters

-Termie Option is to large, 2x squads of 5 works better than 1x squad of 10. Throw a Icon of Khorne and make the LC guys champs for a staggering 5 attacks each on the charge. Consider and Land Raider to get them into position.

-Possessed are expensive so be careful, 10x in rhino or Land Raider. OR 9x in a vehicle would make a decent bodyguard for Kharn the Betrayer.

-Berzerkers are the best CC troops in the Chaos army. 9 (+ character) or 10 in a daemonic rhino is great and cheap...ish.

-Spawn are generally avoided because of how fragile they are and they really dont do anything. From a fun perspective I would use them as a point filler.

-Havocs should go missile launchers or autocannons and you probably are going to need more than 5

-Vindicator, Dirge caster is a nice option for when the gun gets blown off the havoc probably should be replaced by daemonic possession (Its a blast weapon after all!)



If you have any question feel free to ask
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Whirlpool
Eldar with a tramp stamp
Whirlpool


Posts : 47
Join date : 2011-12-20
Location : Bentovnille

My First Army: Chaos Empty
PostSubject: Re: My First Army: Chaos   My First Army: Chaos Icon_minitime27th December 2011, 3:46 pm

After I get used to playing the game more I will probably get a better idea of how soft some of the troops are and what strategy it takes to utilize them properly. Once I get more familiar with how the troop types play I will tweak my armies more according to my play style. I wouldn't mind a berserker and terminator core army, but I'll worry about that as I go. Right now I only have 10 CSM, so now based off of my list, I just need to decide what is the next few troops I want to get. I will be getting Terminators next, then Berserkers and Noise marines I think. On paper Terminators look better to me than Berserkers because of the survivability factor. It seems like Terms can take more beatings and Berserkers dish more out. I can use the Terminators and a Defiler as a beefy unit for holding objectives and such or offensively. I don't see Berserkers being the best "well rounded" troops compared to the terminators; they seem more "offense or nothing" type troops. Until I learn how to play everything I'm thinking "well rounded" will be my best bet for my first army. What do you think?

I was also looking at the Havocs for much later down the road. I kind of think that Obliterators would be a better choice since they have all the heavy weapon choices at their disposal throughout a game, and can be dropped in behind enemy lines. It will be a while before I even get close to thinking about these guys though, so I'll probably have a better idea before I have to make that decision.


Thanks for the input, it really helped!
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DreadArchon
Necron Pariah visiting a shrink
Necron Pariah visiting a shrink
DreadArchon


Posts : 117
Join date : 2011-06-14
Age : 32
Location : Fort Smith, AR

My First Army: Chaos Empty
PostSubject: Re: My First Army: Chaos   My First Army: Chaos Icon_minitime27th December 2011, 5:14 pm

Yes termies are undoubtably more survivable, but they cost more and are an elites choice. Zerkers lose ranged ability but are Troops and are cheaper. Its all a personal choice.

If you are looking for "well rounded" then CSM and terminators with IoCG are great.

Oblits are GREAT between the options, relentless, 2 Wounds and powerfists. Just be careful if you deep strike
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Whirlpool
Eldar with a tramp stamp
Whirlpool


Posts : 47
Join date : 2011-12-20
Location : Bentovnille

My First Army: Chaos Empty
PostSubject: Re: My First Army: Chaos   My First Army: Chaos Icon_minitime9th February 2012, 8:36 pm

It's been slow going trying to scrape together the money to get my army started. Right now I just have 10 CSM and a rhino. I just bought a 5 man squad of terminators on ebay (haven't arrived yet) and bids pending on a predator, daemon prince, and 28 khorne berzerkers. I keep getting outbid at the last second on the good deals. I'm looking for a defiler if anyone has one to get rid of for reasonably cheap. If I can't get the Deamon prince I was curious on your guy's thoughts about which HQ is better for my build- Abbadon, Kharn the betrayer, or Daemon prince. I'm holding out to look for the best deals but with money being an issue and since I haven't played at all yet, I would like some input before I get impatient and buy an HQ at full price. I'm also looking for some noise marines if anyone has some they would get rid of. Hopefully I can get enough to actually play a game soon; I'm really looking forward to it! Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated.
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Whirlpool
Eldar with a tramp stamp
Whirlpool


Posts : 47
Join date : 2011-12-20
Location : Bentovnille

My First Army: Chaos Empty
PostSubject: Re: My First Army: Chaos   My First Army: Chaos Icon_minitime10th February 2012, 3:24 am

woo hoo, Just got another 5 man squad of terminators for $15! Unfortunately I didn't get lucky enough to get the daemon prince or another vehicle. Looks like it will be a while longer before my army is big enough for a game. Oh well, I haven't made it through the entire rule book anyway.
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Whirlpool
Eldar with a tramp stamp
Whirlpool


Posts : 47
Join date : 2011-12-20
Location : Bentovnille

My First Army: Chaos Empty
PostSubject: Re: My First Army: Chaos   My First Army: Chaos Icon_minitime5th March 2012, 1:15 am

So, after getting my first game in with the troops I have, I noticed I was really weak on tank busting. Below is my newly modified army list with the intentions of having more firepower against tanks and the like. I would greatly appreciate feedback and suggestions. As is, my terminator squad could be broken into two five man squads like I played them last time, but have one squad all lighting claws and the others with guns and power fists... not sure how I want to play them yet. I'm thinking everything else will help even the odds with tanks until I get some better options.

I also have a couple of questions. First, would 2 meltaguns in a squad of 10 Chaos space marines be better than a meltagun and a lascannon? I am leaning towards yes since they could still move, fire, and assault afterwards, but I'm not sure. Second, If something is indicated as heavy 2 does this mean they get 2 attacks in the shooting phase instead of a single one, or what? Like I said, any tips or suggestions are welcome and wanted.



One Daemon Prince:
Wings
Mark of Tzeetnch= +1 invulnerable save & 2 psych abilities
Wind of chaos
Gift of chaos

Wind of chaos:
Used in shooting phase
pass psych test
template weapon
models fully or partially under suffer 1 wound on D6 4+
no armor or cover saves
Vehicles suffer glancing hit on D6 4+

Gift of chaos:
Used at beginning of turn
may be in close combat/ as may the target
pick target, pass psych test, within 6" roll D6
if D6 is over victim's base toughness or 6 (characters with no toughness can't be hit)
Removed as casualty/ turned into spawn (worth 40 victory points) and is under control of player
if in base contact with friendly models they are now engaged with spawn
210 pts


One unit of 10 Terminators:
10 champions
- 4 with multi melta and power fists
- 1 with reaper autocannon and chain fist
- 5 with lightning claws
Icon of Nurgle= +1 toughness... thinking of Khorne for the extra attack, but not sure???
590 pts


One unit of 10 Chaos Space Marines:
1 champion
- multi melta
- powerfist
- meltabombs
2 meltaguns or 1 melta and 1 lascannon
Icon of Khorne= +1 attack
210/220 pts (depending on lascannon)


Two units of 10 Berzerkers:
1 Skull champion
- powerfist
-melta bombs
2 plasma pistols
570 pts (285 ea)


One Rhino:
35 pts


Total: 1615/1625 (depending on lascannon)
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big_d
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big_d


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Join date : 2009-06-07

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PostSubject: Re: My First Army: Chaos   My First Army: Chaos Icon_minitime5th March 2012, 3:37 pm

That is a very stout list for the models you have at the points level you have built it for. Getting rid of 10 Terminators is a hassle.

About the only change I would look at would be to change the Icon of Nurgle on the Terminators to an Icon of Tzeentch. Most people are going to shoot plasma and melta guns at the terminators and the +1 Toughness will do nothing to help against that. The Mark of Tzeentch will give you +1 to your invulnerable save for a 4+ invul.

Other than that this is a great list for what you have.

Moving forward I would look at a few more Rhinos and form there just see what you like and start fleshing it out.
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Wildeyedjester
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Wildeyedjester


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Location : Centerton, Arkansas

My First Army: Chaos Empty
PostSubject: Re: My First Army: Chaos   My First Army: Chaos Icon_minitime5th March 2012, 3:46 pm

big_d wrote:
That is a very stout list for the models you have at the points level you have built it for. Getting rid of 10 Terminators is a hassle.

About the only change I would look at would be to change the Icon of Nurgle on the Terminators to an Icon of Tzeentch. Most people are going to shoot plasma and melta guns at the terminators and the +1 Toughness will do nothing to help against that. The Mark of Tzeentch will give you +1 to your invulnerable save for a 4+ invul.

Other than that this is a great list for what you have.

Moving forward I would look at a few more Rhinos and form there just see what you like and start fleshing it out.

Very good advice, I think. I echo Will's wisdom regarding the terminators and what to add.

Add another rhino for your other squad, but then priority number one should be to add some obliterators to help you with all the mech you will face. An easy way to do this is by buying ogres and applying a generous portion of greenstuff and all the leftover gun bits you have from your squads. I would honestly shoot for adding a pair of these units.

The only other change I would make would be to change the Daemon prince to Slaanesh for Lash of Submission. The ability to make a unit run toward your prince, or to run off an objective late game is not to be underestimated.
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Whirlpool
Eldar with a tramp stamp
Whirlpool


Posts : 47
Join date : 2011-12-20
Location : Bentovnille

My First Army: Chaos Empty
PostSubject: Re: My First Army: Chaos   My First Army: Chaos Icon_minitime5th March 2012, 4:56 pm

I've been looking into Obliterators lately so I'm glad to see I'm on the same page as you guys on that thought. With the points value of the obliterators, would it be better to just go with some havocs, or no? I have a lot more I would like to add to my army and keeping my points decently low would be a good thing I would think. I'm looking to get a couple or three more Rhinos (70-105pts), a land raider (220pts), and a defiler (150pts) to put me over the 2k points mark... so adding some Obliterators would really jack my points above the mark. Havocs vs Obliterators... What do you think?

I will for sure take your advice on the Terminators. On the Daemon prince, I was thinking turning enemies into spawns would be a great way to tie up forces in combat without adding anything to my starting points value or force organization; and with the extra psych ability to help with troop and tank fighting, I don't know if it would be better than the Lash of submission on its own. I DO like the thought of being able to move troops at my will, but I just don't have the experience to tell if it would be as useful as the other abilities in overall battles. Its seems to be very situational.
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