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 Draft Rules for 2011 ETC Tournements

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Haren
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PostSubject: Draft Rules for 2011 ETC Tournements   13th October 2010, 2:13 am

Heard about this earlier today on podhammer and actually have been reading up on this. Some good changes and some not so good changes. Anyway here are the changes.

http://www.rankingshq.com/etc/article.aspx?ArticleTypeId=2&ArticleId=218
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Verminlord
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PostSubject: Re: Draft Rules for 2011 ETC Tournements   13th October 2010, 4:48 pm

If it was one or two things they were changing and/or limiting, might be ok. Instead it's "we don't like these rules so let's make up our own".
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big_d
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PostSubject: Re: Draft Rules for 2011 ETC Tournements   13th October 2010, 8:09 pm

I agree. Seems really ham-fisted.

I can see them limiting a few things (power scroll, folding fortress) but they have just really gone overboard.
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capnwoodrow
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PostSubject: Re: Draft Rules for 2011 ETC Tournements   13th October 2010, 8:18 pm

Yeah. I think you're going to hear "7.5" a lot with these changes.

That being said, it's a first draft. I'm sure they are just coming out of the gate with the areas they would like to address and then will scale down from there. Didn't last year's ETC just finish up? That gives them a year or so to work on fine tuning this.
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bdix
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PostSubject: Re: Draft Rules for 2011 ETC Tournements   13th October 2010, 9:53 pm

1. what's etc
2. why is poland ahead of us
3. how do they rank these people

this site is pretty funny
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capnwoodrow
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PostSubject: Re: Draft Rules for 2011 ETC Tournements   13th October 2010, 9:57 pm

1. The European Team Championship (kind of the Superbowl of Warhammer).
2. They have a good team and play the system well. It's not just a matter of showing up and playing.
3. By victory in the yearly ETC event in Europe.
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bdix
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PostSubject: Re: Draft Rules for 2011 ETC Tournements   13th October 2010, 10:00 pm

So Krzysztof Bialek is the Tom Brady of the 40k world....NICE


Also, I just noticed our guys name is Shaun Kemp...maybe it should be more like the NBA finals??
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Kragg
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PostSubject: Re: Draft Rules for 2011 ETC Tournements   14th October 2010, 11:08 am

capnwoodrow wrote:
1. The European Team Championship (kind of the Superbowl of Warhammer).
2. They have a good team and play the system well. It's not just a matter of showing up and playing.

1. Looks more like the Ryder Cup.
2. We need an ATC where we make up our own rules.
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Verminlord
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PostSubject: Re: Draft Rules for 2011 ETC Tournements   14th October 2010, 12:54 pm

capnwoodrow wrote:
1. The European Team Championship (kind of the Superbowl of Warhammer).
2. They have a good team and play the system well. It's not just a matter of showing up and playing.
3. By victory in the yearly ETC event in Europe.

I fail to understand how they can play a system well, when they are clearly not playing by the rules as written.
At this point I would consider them in the realm of "Arena League" football, and not the NFL which people actually pay attention to. In Arena Football they have amended the rules to fit the smaller field. And yes, this is one step below the Canadian Football League.
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Fulminata
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PostSubject: Re: Draft Rules for 2011 ETC Tournements   17th October 2010, 12:20 pm

Verminlord wrote:

I fail to understand how they can play a system well, when they are clearly not playing by the rules as written.

1) No tournament I've ever seen goes strictly by the rules as written. The ETC changes things more than most, but they are running in an unusual environment, ie. team play

2) They write the rules in regards to team play, so it's kind of hard for them not to play by the rules as written in regards to team play

Team play involves scoring in a team vs. team contest in which individual players must keep the overall goal of beating the other team in mind, not just beating the other player. For example, this can mean playing for a deliberate draw in order to avoid giving the other team points when facing an opponent that could potentially wipe you off the table were you to go for a win.

Most teams actually have a team captain who doesn't actually play any games, but instead keeps track of these things, telling individual players how they should play.

The Polish team has proven to be very skilled at both playing the 1v1 game and keeping their eye on the overall team game.

I'm pretty sure this was the first year that the US sent a team, so we actually did pretty good with that in mind.
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PhantomPhoenix
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PostSubject: Re: Draft Rules for 2011 ETC Tournements   17th October 2010, 11:16 pm

Not to mention GW has never claimed that either Warhammer variant was designed for Tournament play. This is no clearer than with the new Fantasy edition. So many of the rules rely on exceedingly random rolls the game has gone from 'strategy in every phase' to 'who gets luckiest rolls'. Yes rolling is inherently random and the reason these games are worth playing, but when virtually every action requires dice rolls the game starts to bog down and be less about tactics and more about random luck. Not to mention items like the Power Scroll and Folding Tower are terrible additions to the game and ones that GW never should have let through. They had to make some changes both for the sake of Team Play and for the sake of Tournaments in general.

Personal Grievances w/ WHFB aside, the part that floors me is this
Quote :
in an ETC context, where playing for draws is a legit (indeed advisable) strategy.
I honestly don't see how this can be a valid competition when the goal is "Just not suck". I mean I'm all for friendly games and not pounding your pal's face in with a tooled list against their new 'still learning the game' list, but in a tournament environment, the goal should be winning... That's pretty much the whole point of a tournament.


Last edited by PhantomPhoenix on 17th October 2010, 11:53 pm; edited 1 time in total (Reason for editing : oops little words make all the difference in the world...)
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Fulminata
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PostSubject: Re: Draft Rules for 2011 ETC Tournements   17th October 2010, 11:43 pm

PhantomPhoenix wrote:
Personal Grievances w/ WHFB aside, the part that floors me is this
Quote :
in an ETC context, where playing for draws is a legit (indeed advisable) strategy.
I honestly don't see how this can be a valid competition when the goal is "Just not suck". I mean I'm all for friendly games and pounding your pal's face in with a tooled list against their new 'still learning the game' list, but in a tournament environment, the goal should be winning... That's pretty much the whole point of a tournament.

Again, it's because of the team play. Each round your team faces off against another team. At the end of the round the total score for each team is what counts, not the number of wins vs. losses. IIRC, the teams alternate in selecting matchups, so if you're in a matchup that's not in your favor it's often better to simply play for the draw than risk giving the opposing team a lot of points. That's simply good strategy given the format.
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bdix
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PostSubject: Re: Draft Rules for 2011 ETC Tournements   18th October 2010, 10:32 am

I smell an Olympic event!
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