thinking about starting a 40k army

need advice what are some good fun, but also strong armies

Strongest armies right now are IG and Space Wolves. Honestly I think the Wolves have a better overall codex, and that will show when the nonsense with Mystics is finally dealt with for real. If you like vehicles, a lot, IG is generally the way to go. They have more vehicles than you can find to do anything with, it's almost ridiculous. Wolves have arguably the best Troop Choice in the game, Grey Hunters, strong psychic defense, and some really nasty CC monsters, TWolves and Lone Wolves. Space wolves would probably be easier to learn on than IG but both are very strong.

I'd say second tier is probably Blood Angels, Orks, & Codex: Marines. Angels are Fast and Hard Hitting but fragile since they're units are expensive and they're model count low. They've definitely got some really nice synergistic combos though, especially off of deep strike. Orks are one of the most underrated armies in my opinion. They're still very competitive and have a ton of variations (as well as conversion opportunities.) Codex: Marines make up the core of the game. Everything is based around them in comparisons. They shoot pretty well, they fight pretty well, they can take a hit, and they can dish it back. Easiest place to learn and definitely a good place to experiment as they have almost as many variations as Orks.

After that you have Chaos, Eldar, Tau, & Daemons. Chaos Space Marines have a solid codex, the only real problem with it is everything is a little too expensive (not counting Daemon Princes) and their are virtually no options. The biggest difference is really whether your marines have melta/plasma/flamer. The army thrives on great troop choices, Zerkers and Plague Marines are right up their with Grey Hunters in value. Eldar are a lot like how I described Blood Angels but faster and more fragile. They can't fight as well as MEQ units, but they make up for it with maneuverability and good Shooting. Tau are kinda the oddity in in 40k, they don't really do anything better than anyone as much as they do the same with different gear. They don't shoot as well (read: as much) as IG but they have ways to alter it (Marker Lights) they're not as mobile as Eldar, but still can treat their vehicles as fast. Plus they have Railguns, and those things are great. Daemons are another strange one, they don't deploy you have to deep strike half your army Turn 1, similar to DP Assault. In addition to this, they don't really have a lot of shooting which makes that first turn a bit of a crap shoot, but if you get into melee with the enemy, they regret it. Lots of really cool models and conversion opportunities here. Black Templars and Dark Angels kinda fall on the bottom edge of this tier, not quite 3rd IMHO, but not really 4th either. Both have solid lists that still do well if played right, but both are prone to fairly large weaknesses that are partially due to old codices.

Dark Eldar, Necrons, Grey Knights, and Sisters of Battle. All of these armies were clearly designed for old editions and don't quite hold up in the current environment. They're still pretty good, Dan does quite well with his Necrons, but they're just missing something. However 3/4 of them are supposed to get updates within the next year if rumors are to be believed.

That basically sums most of it up, don't think I forgot anything, let me know if I did.

We should sticky this topic.

I think Phantom got it fairly well accurate. Orks get downplayed a lot, but I think it's because a lot of people bring subpar lists with them, so I still rate them fairly high.

I completely agree with you Capn. If I remember correctly, an Ork player won the Nova Open, a tournament that is quickly becoming the most highly praised in many circles.

The army Phantom forgot to list the Nids. Current nids are a T1 army along with the IG and Wolfs. The sheer number of models they can field at a given point game is insane. As with the Orks, the modeling possibilities are huge but also one of their downsides. A number of their units don't have models so you have to convert or find alternate models ( Will's Doom is a good example ). Their shooting phase is average, but their close combat is one of the best in the game. With no transports, the army focuses on overwhelming the enemy with numbers and rushing across the board.

PhantomPhoenix wrote:

I completely agree with you Capn. If I remember correctly, an Ork player won the Nova Open, a tournament that is quickly becoming the most highly praised in many circles.

#1 was space wolves
#2 was blood angels
#3 was space wolves

You're thinking of the Friday night duels, but the Orks lost there too. =(

Haren wrote:

The army Phantom forgot to list the Nids. Current nids are a T1 army along with the IG and Wolfs. The sheer number of models they can field at a given point game is insane. As with the Orks, the modeling possibilities are huge but also one of their downsides. A number of their units don't have models so you have to convert or find alternate models ( Will's Doom is a good example ). Their shooting phase is average, but their close combat is one of the best in the game. With no transports, the army focuses on overwhelming the enemy with numbers and rushing across the board.

If you convert and are willing to put 2-3 Tervigons on the board, you can deploy in depth and basically force a win in most objective games. Also, their shooting is arguably better than most; the problem is, their good shooting doesn't have models (Tyrranofex/ Harpy) or you can't get the models (Hive Guard) or a space wolf Rune Priest hurts badly (Zoanthropes).

Yes I forgot the bugs, sorry Big Al... I wouldn't say T1 honestly, really Wolves and IG can handle them very handily. I would put them T2 with the Angels, Orks, and Codex: Marines. They have a lot of solid units most definitely and an astonishing number of different builds, but surprisingly few that work well in a tournament setting (from what I've read, my personal experience with them is generally have Big Al walk all over my Chaos). Also, all psychic defense hurts Zoeys, most hood wearers are equal Ld in most competitive armies nowadays.

Brent, you're right, for some reason I was thinking Dashofpepper won, he placed very highly. Tony something or other won it now that I think about it... my bad again...

Edit - Just took a look at the Angel list, not a single Razorback. I'm a bit surprised to be honest, still MSUs with few upgrades, and of course Mephy made a show. I keep trying to avoid him (damn my desire to stay fluffy with a successor chapter) but he's just so damn good if you use him right.

Phantomphoenix, what the heck is a cc monster u were talking about the monsters but i didnt find any monsters

PhantomPhoenix wrote:

Wolves have arguably the best Troop Choice in the game, Grey Hunters, strong psychic defense, and some really nasty CC monsters, TWolves and Lone Wolves.

Monster in this case means that they are a strong Melee Unit. Thunder wolves and Lone Wolves.

oh
r the Twolves the terminator space wolve guys(t meaning terminators)
and what r the lone wolves?
Also since i think they r who i will b playing(they are cool) what should i get(already have one space wolves pack, and canis wolfborn, and a predator tank, oh and some assault marines

Turn of phrase, my bad, guess it is too close to something that actually exists in game... anyway TWolves = Thunderwolf Cavalry. Space Marines riding Giant Wolves, T5 W2 all kinds of crazy options, and still fast as hell. Lone Wolves are Solo Space Wolves that you can outfit to be very nasty in CC. They can't join or be joined, but if they die your opponent doesn't get kill points, they only get the kill points if it survives. Basically their goal in life is to be awesome for 3-4 turns and then bite it hard.

As to what to pick up, Grey Hunters are your best bet for the initial purchase, they'll take a decent amount of your points at low games and, as I said, they're great. After that it's really up to what you want to build. The 2 most popular lists right now are Razorspam (Lots and lots of razorbacks) or Loganwing (Logan and Troop Wolf Guard).

MonkeyMan wrote:

oh
r the Twolves the terminator space wolve guys(t meaning terminators) and what r the lone wolves?
Also since i think they r who i will b playing(they are cool) what should i get(already have one space wolves pack, and canis wolfborn, and a predator tank, oh and some assault marines

Step one: Buy a copy of Assault on Black Reach. This will get you a few Tactical marines, a few terminators, and a dred. the big win will be the rule book.

Step Two: Buy the Space Wolves Codex. Read it. Figure out how the army works before committing too much more money into them.

Step Three: If you like the army, Buy units / Trade for units (trading might be hard since they are actively played).

Step Four: Play a couple of low point (500-1k point) games. Figure what units work and don't work for your play style. Ask questions to people who play or are knowledgeable with the space puppies.

Step Five: Build out your force to 1.5k, 1.85k, 2k, 2.5k, and finaly 3k(ok so the 2.5 and 3k are far far distant goals, but you'll probably end up doing it anyway). The whole time playing games figuring out what works and doesn't work for you at each mile stone point value.

If at the end of step 2 - 5 you dont like the army (or you just want to spend the money and get a second army), you have a head start on an ork army because of the box. Go pickup the Ork codex and repeat steps 3-5 with them

Phantomphoenix, how do u make the thunderwolf calvary
Haren, i already have two assault on black reach sets, two squads of Devastator marines, 47 marines, 10 terminators, three drednaughts, and 2 captains
As for orks i have, 4 sets of ork boys, 1 set of lootas, the killa kans set, 9 nobz, 2 warbosses, and 3 deffkoptas
I also have a ton of other 40k stuff

MonkeyMan wrote:

how do u make the thunderwolf calvary

There are a lot of ways. Look around for alternate mini companies or convert your own. Bsimon made his out of chaos knights and I made mine on bikes.

do u know any good alternate companies like those u r talking about, also add a group of scouts with sniper rifles to that list

Cheap and Nice

My Favorite so far

3rd option

No sniper rifles on your scouts... Meltagun on one, meltabombs on another, Mark of the Wulfen if you have points... Wolf Scouts' Behind Enemy Lines rules is spectacular.

Thanks for the sites i like them all but i will probably go with the third since they are only 45 or i could wait on that stuff until christmas and i could get one or two of any of them, scouts are already assembled as snipers, are the snipers bad

what armies do u guys play because if u want some more guys i almost 100% will have some of them if u guys are interested

first option is the cheapest at $13.80 per model while the 3rd was $15.00 per. That is of course assuming price is the main factor.

You don't give Wolf Scouts snipers because you want them to Outflank on your opponents back edge (generally) which means minimum of 2 turns where you can't fire the rifles (Turn 1 not on the field, Turn 2 walking on). On average you'd only get 2 or 3 turns of shooting off.

Darn!!! Phantomphoenix, y did u have to link that site for the first ones, i looked at all their stuff and they have wolf lords and priests y
I want them all