Lord of the rings

Yeah, so I am going to play this game now. I know fantasy is better and all that, but I got into Warhammer under the premise that I was going to play Lord of the Rings. It's taken me close to five years, but I am definately about to shell out the money needed to reinact all the major battles.

Do either of the rule books give unit break downs on the major battles? i.e. the number of each type of unit on either side of the battle of Helm's Deep

If you want a codex, you need to get Legions of Middle Earth; which I have a copy of I believe.

Let me know when you want to start; I saw you in there tonight looking thru stuff, I believe.

I'll start getting my Goblins painted up and my Balrog finished (about less than an hour left on the Balrog) so I can start playing.

Maybe we can talk Fulminata into tricking his wife into thinking he has to work late so he will use another night to come in to play.

Neither book has an exact breakdown of units for specific battles. War of the Ring has many scenarios based on conflicts from the books, with armies described as special characters and the points values of the rest of the army, but you pick the specific units within those points values.

You're not going to find opponents for War of the Ring though, at least not yet. War of the Ring is effectively LotR: Apocalypse. Like 40K: Apocalypse, no one gets into it without first spending a lot of time playing the lower model count game. First you'd need to build interest in LotR, and then WotR might follow eventually.

There are scenario books for Lord of the Rings that lay out specific scenarios for that game along with the specific models needed to fight them, but I don't have any of them. I just have the core rules and the Legions of Middle Earth book that provides army lists so you can do point based games of LotR (the core book includes stats and point values, but not army lists, because it was originally designed just to be played with scenarios). If you're interested in the scenario books, I'd suggest looking at the listings on GW's site and then having Chris order one for you that you think sounds interesting.

As for my playing, my best bet would be to get in the occasional noon game, or even a game on board game night (but the latter probably no more than once a month). Claiming I'm working late doesn't do so well since I work at home

Does this game run a lot like the other GW games?

They all use miniatures

Both LotR and WotR are actually a bit of a refreshing change from the other GW games. To begin with, LotR is a skirmish game, but doesn't use the exact same set of core rules found in GW's other skirmish games, like Mordheim and Necromunda.

LotR uses interlaced turns instead of an igo/ugo model. Both players have an opportunity to move before either player can shoot, then both players have an opportunity to shoot before either can fight.

Command and Control are very important issues in LotR. The side that loses its heroes is not automatically defeated, but is going to be at a very severe disadvantage due to having to test for Courage as individual models instead of being able to rely on the heroes to test for them. The same applies to models that get too far from their heroes. You can send a flanking force around the side, and it can be quite effective, but if they don't have a hero accompanying them, then they are also going to be quite fragile.

WotR isn't quite as different as it used to be, as 8th Edition Fantasy has borrowed some ideas from it, but it still has some concepts that are unique to it like the uniform arrangement of units into blocks of 8 infantry or 2 cavalry (as well as some concepts that it used to share with Fantasy that it no longer does, like area terrain instead of true line of sight).

I've never actually played WotR, but it looks quite interesting.

Im pretty interested in constructing the actual terrain from the books. I found a site that gives an amazingly accurate break down of how to build them all. Playing the game is pretty much secondary to the actual modeling of this for me. I want to play it of course; but the lack of interest most people have isnt a deterant for me. I figure if I can make some convincing terrain peices, people will definately want to get an occasional game with me.

The massive battles would be fun, but I think its more of a fulfilling my childhood fantasys of playing as Eomer and Aragorn kind of thing lol.

Aparently "The Two Towers" rulebook, as well as three issues of White Dwarf chronicle how to set up Helm's Deep.

Fulminata wrote:

Claiming I'm working late doesn't do so well since I work at home

Once again I achieve epic fail.

At least I'm no longer interested in talking to people named Huie or Ralph in close proximity to a porcelain bowl with a lid attached to it. For the moment at least.

bdix wrote:

The massive battles would be fun, but I think its more of a fulfilling my childhood fantasys of playing as Eomer and Aragorn kind of thing lol.

You can play those heroes in Lord of the Rings, just in smaller battles. I always wanted to dress up as Eowyn...oh wait, this is my conversation for the different kind of forum I troll...

Back to topic:

The important thing to get is to make sure you learn how to walk (learn the Lord of the Rings skirmish game) before you try to fly (try to learn the War of the Ring army battles game)

Believe me; the skirmish game is not really all that small and you get a feel for the way some of the battles occur in the movies, just in smaller sized battles.

I like the skirmish game because even tho it is easier to buy your units you play with in blocks, you can run your individual warriors all over the board. Just don't be dismayed when your warriors are not in range of your commander's effects just when they need to be if you do run them all over the place. When warriors lose a morale check they disappear off the board. You don't get to physically move the mini and try to recover morale.

If you don't have at least one mini in range of a Victory Point at game's end then you don't get to even contest it.

Mind you, all the above is based on a few games Fulminata and I played almost two years ago. I have slept since then so feel free to correct me, J.

My memories are just as old, but I believe you are correct in your recollections, Chris.

I should point out that prior to the release of WotR, GW was really pushing bigger battles using the LotR rules. I have it on good authority from a friend of mine who was a GW store manager at the time, that these bigger battles using LotR basically break the game. I suspect the Helm's Deep scenario falls into that category, but if you're just looking to build interesting terrain, then that shouldn't be a factor.

Incidentally, there is a Helm's Deep scenario in WotR. It's basically a 5000 point battle, and with no epic heroes allowed on the evil side, that's a heck of a lot of uruk-hai!

Now I'm getting the itch to play again...

bdix wrote:

I know fantasy is better and all that

Missed this before, Fantasy is different, not better. Personally, I think the LotR rules are "better," although 8th edition closes the gap quite a bit from what I've seen so far. Even then, it's apples and oranges since Fantasy is a mass battles game, and LotR is a skirmish game.

Just felt it needed to be said since I think LotR is actually one of the better games GW has made

I have to disagree with fulminata at least somewhat. I am not a huge fan of LOTR the basic game as the scenarios are very jaded and the outcome is all but decided. If you like to play recreations, this game system is wonderful. It is also a great way to get started. WOTR is in my opinion the much better system. You are allowed more freedom and the outcome is not biased as in LOTR. Take what you will from each game as they have their ups and downs. We do stock a WOTR rulebook and several models that can be used in both systems. If I start to see more people interested in this game, I will certainly expand my line to accomodate. I even have a couple of guys at the store who have at least a starter army.

LotR started as a purely scenario based system, but since the publication of Legions of Middle-Earth it's been playable as a point-based competitive game that's at least as balanced as any of GW's other systems.

Having only played the game using Legions of Middle-Earth, I have to completely disagree with the statement that "the outcome is all but decided."

Fulminata wrote:

LotR started as a purely scenario based system, but since the publication of Legions of Middle-Earth it's been playable as a point-based competitive game that's at least as balanced as any of GW's other systems.

Having only played the game using Legions of Middle-Earth, I have to completely disagree with the statement that "the outcome is all but decided."

The outcome was never decided in any of the games I played with John, but then again we didn't do scenarios. We just did DYO with point based armies. I am not too sure I want to actually recreate any of the scenes from the movies.

yeah im definately going to play with the models as I get them, so LotR is my first choice to play. I think I may get that starter that Chris has once I get the money.

My recommended shopping list for getting into the game:

1. One box of plastic infantry for the faction you want to try
   
2. One blister of generic heroes for the faction you want to try
   
3. The hardcover core rules (can probably be replaced with the starter set, but I don't know if anything important is missing from the mini rules book that is included, like the unit stats)
   
4. Legions of Middle-Earth (this has the army construction rules and generic point based scenarios, but not stats)

One box plus one blister should give you enough to make a 250 point force and try out the game. Chris and I played on this level and had a lot of fun with it. Going to 500 points is then usually just a matter of adding a named hero and a box of cavalry. After that you should have enough experience with the game to figure out on your own where to go from there.

Since it is an easy game to get into; I'll get my Moria goblins done as soon as possible. I have a large amount of prep to do for my Dark Heresy game this week but in between deciding what items will be present at an archeotech/xenos items auction I will finish the Balrog and work on my Goblins.

As soon as I am ready I will post and get a game in with someone. Hopefully John first so I can refresh the rules in my mind.

yeah I think I want to do Rohan...I have a thing for Two Towers

Picked up a box of Riders of Rohan, Gandalf on Shadowfax, Gimli and Legolas on horseback, Ring Wrath, and some Uruk Hai warriors today....mostly off a trade I made with bloodthirsty

Umm, try not to do that at CHG again. Meet somewhere else, if you would.

oh sorry, I didn't know that was out of line. I had seen it done before so I figured it was okay. Won't happen again.

Looking back at it, it was pretty bad judgment on my part. There is no room for me to be peddling in a store that is selling the same product!

Just finished painting 2 of 6 Riders....I'll bring them by CHG tomorrow, as well as probally buy another box of them.

Also, I got that plaster, when can I come in and start molding?

Got 12 riders now assembled, 3 painted. I'm working on a list now for 500 points of skirmish, consisting of 12 riders and a rohan hero of some sort. I'll post it once I'm done so whomever wants to play me can

If you can put together a list for 250 then I'm a lot more likely to give you a game, because then I can use my uruk-hai. At 500 I'd have to use my Gondor force and assemble a model or two.

Today was a Q&A about games in general day for me. Usually don't have this many people all at once come in and ask me about playing games. (Around ten between noon and 3)

Then around 3 I received an emergency phone call so I had to leave for the day. Maybe Sunday I can come down and get some minis painted.