T-Shirt Explosion news?

Hey gang,

I was playing in T-Shirt today and Dennis made the following annoucement:

He's going to start an official gaming club. Your membership covers table cost for playing at the store, a year's subscription to White Dwarf, a rewards program he'll be implementing, priority over non-members for gaming at the store, and a discount to T-shirt tourney buy-ins. He also said that members of the club will be "required" to help at the tournaments. He didn't elaborate on what help would be required.

Here's the rub - it fell out of my head how much this would cost. My left brain keeps throwing out $125 a year, but my right brain thinks he said it worked out to $15 a month ($180/yr). Therefore I can safely state the price is between $125 - $180 a year. He gave the price in a per year format, so i'm assuming it'll be an upfront buy in.

Sorry I can't remember the exact price of the membership, but he made the announcement BEFORE we all started gaming so the numbers fell out of my brain.

EDIT: $108

So, assuming that I want a subscription to White Dwarf (and don't already have one directly from GW), it's going to cost between $50 and $105 a year for the privilege of being forcibly volunteered to help with tournaments?

I'm not really seeing the benefits here. Maybe if I didn't already have space to play at other locations it would be more attractive.

I assume this is would be a subscription through the store, picked up at the location each month. Interesting idea for T-shirt. If it drives more sales for them - excellent. Anything that brings more people into the game and keeps the stores strong and viable in the area is beneficial to everyone.

However, Big D and I gradually see the Hogs of War continuing in the official club route as well, as we grown in numbers and continue forward. We are more interested in a casual non-monetary membership base that meets semi-regularly for events, and goes to tournaments with as many 'members' representing the NWA area as possible.

I generally don't see a store based paid membership club as a good thing. There are pros and cons to it, but overall I feel the cons outweigh the pros.

In highly urbanized areas where space is at a premium, charging for gaming space can be a viable option. NWA does not fit that model. I understand that HobbyTown is already charging for play space (unless that has changed), but I think in the long run a store has to treat its gaming space as a promotional expense and not a profit center. Charging for that space, even if it's just for priority seating as T-shirt seems to be doing, discourages new players from participating, and new players are the single most profitable gamer demographic.

The key to making a gaming space profitable is events. The more gamers you get in the store, the more sales you generate. Charge for the gaming space, and you actually end up with fewer gamers in the store as they decide to game at home instead. Once they're gaming at home, they begin to wonder why they shouldn't shop at home as well. This is something I've seen time and again in debates about supporting the FLGS with your purchases. Those who game at home see little reason to do so, whereas those who game at the FLGS often show a desire to support it with purchases, even if they can get better deals elsewhere. Putting obstacles in the way of playing at the FLGS, in the form of fees, ends up being counterproductive to profitability.

All that said, T-shirt doesn't easily fit into any business model I've ever come across before. Since first becoming aware of it after moving back into the area in late 2007, I've thought it was more akin to a gaming club than a store in the first place, so it's possible that this model might work for them, where it would be less likely to work for a more traditional retail store like HobbyTown or Castle House.

Anyway, that's my late night musings on the idea

I can assure everyone that there will never be a membership cost for gaming at Castle House Games.

The only thing close I am considering implementing is a membership club that with a $10 yearly fee you get a card with our logo and advertisements on it that a customer shows when they come in and they will receive a 10% discount on any purchase. Something similar to B-Dalton or Hastings

I will insure that WD will always be available in sufficient quantity at the store. Currently I get in about 6 an issue. I hope that number will increase soon as needed. As soon as I can I will be increasing my inventory of GW products and will keep sufficient numbers on hand to meet with demand.

I do not plan on doing any sort of battling against the stores; that will only hurt the community. I plan on remaining professional and as helpful as I can. I will ask others to point out any mistakes I make and also any improvements I can make that are helpful.

Castle House Games has enough space to have as many as 20 4x6 tables to be set up in various areas in such a way that nobody is crowded; as I count space. This would definitely crowd my store but if I need to take advantage of that space someday then it could only be a great thing.

Currently I have two regular height 4x6 tables and one crappily built 4x8 table that is lower. I have one more lower height table but it has no edging on the sides. More tables will be built as soon as possible, as needed.

No one will ever be required to do anything at any tournaments ran at the store and any judges (who will have to be ok'd by me) will be given some sort of compensation, usually in the way of night-of-the-tournament 20% discounts with entry fees paid if they play as well or something along those lines.

I hope to see everyone there at the store soon!

Unless the business model has changed, T-Shirt is an invitation only club that is not being ran as a business; on purpose. They already have an established group playing there; they don't need to rely on new players.

So Dennis' strategy will most likely work for him. I couldn't; wouldn't; run a business that way because I don't know how to. I only know what works for me and so far that is a strategy of inclusion that will get the numbers in the door because that way when the bad days hit, you aren't hurt so bad.

Getting numbers in from the U of A can only help the industry as a whole. I have two French kids wandering the store and whenever I see them I try to make sure they are getting as much help as possible, since they could pull in some U of A buddies in with them.

Fulminata wrote:

I understand that HobbyTown is already charging for play space (unless that has changed),

It has. They don't have a table charge any longer.


Not to come across as trying to pick a side (I just wanted to give everyone a heads up), but he said the main reason was that he's not just offering two folding card tables with some coffee cans on them as terrain. He's got 3 realm of battle gameboards with approx $1.5k of terrain available and a lot of it is painted to a high standard.

It's all in what works for you. If you want access to their tables and scenery, play in their tourneys, and shop at the stores - it isn't a terrible idea.

Also keep in mind, the store is supposedly changing their hours in august to keep the store open until 10pm. This would mean your subscription would cover a place to game M-F until the late evening.

Indeed. T-shirt runs great tournaments and does have very well done terrain. Dennis knows his stuff very well and is a good guy to work with. He will bend over backwards to get the stuff in that you need.

We are looking forward to the occasional Friday night game nights there, so the Hogs can come down and play some at T-shirt. Previously the Saturday game days precluded our number quite alot.

I'm sure the 'club fees' are for regulars - as I don't think he will be stopping people from playing in tournaments or keeping people from playing who are not 'regulars'. All game shops want new folks in and visitors - that won't change!

I don't know about you guys but I have always been of the mind that if I play at a store location, I at least pick up a White Dwarf or Blister while I am there.

The original version I heard was $108/year for 12 months of WD, a 10% discount on purchases, and no table charge. Also, no table charge if you bought something that day. If you subscribe to WD already or plan to buy a new army this year (fairly common), it's a decent deal.

I hadn't heard of the "have to help with tournaments" part.

May have been $108. That definitely sounds more reasonable.

As for the other details, I'm sure that Dennis will get it up and running very soon.

I would never join a club attached to a store...

I would never pay to play at a table...

However this is just me and I am part of CAWS. We have 75ish tables and enough terrain for all. All fantasy of course. The Moonshineboyz is trying to accumulate some club terrain. The next 2-3 tournaments half the money will go to club terrain that will be availible to any member and general stored at peoples houses so they can use the terrain for home battles. Players will be told instead of the 100% payout like we run now that it will only be 50% payout. Maybe I'm just spoiled having boards and terrain and being able to play people at my house or go to other players houses or the game store and play for free if I'm tired of the same 6 opponents. (Although all the terrain at the store is not the store owners, it belongs to CAWS. Maybe this is why there is no charge)

littleboyblues wrote:

I would never join a club attached to a store...

I would never pay to play at a table...

I try never to say never, but I tend to agree, especially when there are alternatives, and none of them are "just offering two folding card tables with some coffee cans on them as terrain." He's got a nice selection of terrain, but it's not like he's building a custom themed table every month, like most GW hobby centers do for no charge. As for the Realm of Battle boards, they're nice, but their main advantages are portability, storability, and durability, none of which matter if I'm just playing on them at the store.

All that said, $108 with a %10 discount is a bit more reasonable, if you want the WD subscription ($75 value last time I checked the GW site), but otherwise is still pretty high.

I do want to say that my first post in this thread came off a bit snarky, and I didn't really intend that. Dennis seems like a nice guy, and I've had nothing but good experiences in my personal dealings with him. If this is what he's got to do in order to keep the store profitable, then I hope it works out for him and wish him the best of luck. The more stores in the area the better, as far as I'm concerned. Even if a table charge/club fee keeps me away from his, the fact that it's there still helps the overall community.

I'm concerned though, because in my experience with the retail industry charging usage fees or fees for customer loyalty programs (which is what a discount is), most often ends up being counter-productive. In the long run, those areas are best looked at as promotional expenses rather than profit centers, and when run well should more than pay for themselves simply in the business they bring in. Like I've said before though, I don't really understand his business model, so hopefully it will work for him.


*whew* rant over

Wow! I am really glad to see that there is a great concern about the CLUB issue.

First of all - Nothing is for certain, yet. The gaming club will be designed to promote gaming, save our members money, and provide our loyal customers with additional benefits. We know that times are tough, and this is just an idea to help the patrons of T Shirt Explosion. We do the exact same thing with our loyal Screen Printing customers.

We are, and have always been here to promote the hobby. Open gaming at the shop is what started us on the path we are now on, and we will continue this.

This past weekend, we began to let some ideas fly out there, and now we are seeing feedback from them. I was impressed at the passion that all of the folks have about the hobby, and I completely understand that, being a long time player, before I ever sold any GW product.

We will always try to make our environment at T Shirt Explosion the most friendly, knowledgeable, and fun anywhere. I started the business because I play Warhammer, and I love to play Warhammer. My goal, and that of my partner, is to make this the place to be for Warhammer and Warhammer 40K players by providing service, product, environment, knowledge, and anything else we can for those that choose to frequent our establishment.

Dennis

Could you post a breakdown of what it entails here, since your site is currently down?

We really don't know what we are going to do, as of yet. We really like the CAWS club and the way their members rally around every event they host, and we would like something akin to that in NWA.

We also know that everybody doesn't need a WD Subscription, but on the good issues, over 50% of the issues, we always run out, and someone is left out, and we don't want that to happen.

I would like everyone that wants to play at our shop to be able to get in a game every time they come into the store to play.

We host 2 major tournaments every year, and that is going to increase very soon, but we will need the help and support of all our local gamers, if that is going to become a reality. Without help and support, major events cannot be, and I would like more local events for our patrons, so they don't need to drive 3 or 4 hours to play.

As far as the Club idea goes, we really want feedback on all aspects of the idea. It seems that the biggest negative that we have found, is that folks will vehemently oppose anyone that wants them to pay to play. We all pay tons of $$$$ for the stuff that we need to play with, and being charged a premium on top of that is somewhat absurd. It would make me a bit upset if I spent $50 at your shop, and then you charged me to use your tables! That won't happen, believe me.

We want the Warhammer hobby to grow in NWA. We want new players to learn the game, the hobby, and the fun of Warhammer. We want our loyal patrons to feel special when they come into our establishment. We want our new patrons to feel welcome when they come into our store. That's what the CLUB idea is all about.

If I was still just playing instead of being on the opposite side of the counter I wouldn't have a problem paying a fair value price for using the shop owner's equipment as long as it was explained to me what and why I was paying. But then again I don't have the same outlook on things the way the majority of people in the world do.

Thank goodness........

warhammerworld wrote:

As far as the Club idea goes, we really want feedback on all aspects of the idea.

I've tried to give this some time before responding because I know a lot of gamers have a hot button for "pay to play" gaming areas. If you make it clear that you're giving out a membership to a club that has these added perks - discounts, a WD subscription, cheaper tourney intros, and more events to play in then I think you're heading the in the right direction.

At the end of the day - that's what all of us in the Hobby want: More hobby.

I would have no problems supporting more gaming clubs in NWA. Maybe a WD-less membership option? I don't buy it for purely ethical reasons

Just let us know when you've hammered out the final version and what it all entails and we can make up our minds then if it's something we want to be a part of.

Anyways, that's my .02.