Another CSM 2k

What with all the other lists popping up the last few days I might as well post the one I've been toying with and getting ready for a little play testing. Assuming all goes well this is probably what I'll field at the next CHG tournament.

HQ:
Prince - MoN, Wings, Warptime - 175
Prince - MoN, Wings, Rot - 165

Elite:
Terminatorsx3 - Combi-Meltax3 - 105

Troops:
Zerkersx8 - ChampW/Fist - 208
Zerkersx8 - ChampW/Fist - 208
Plague Marinesx7 - Meltax2, ChampW/Fist, Rhino - 256
Plague Marinesx7 - Meltax2, ChampW/Fist, Rhino - 256

Heavy:
Land Raider - Daemonic Possession - 240
Land Raider - Daemonic Possession - 240
Vindicator - Daemonic Possession - 145

1998/2000

Not much room for juggling as everything that can be bare already pretty much is. That said, the main thing I'm testing is whether or not the land raiders provide me with enough utility, outside of dropping off the zerkers, to drop my Obliterators. I'm hoping the resilience of the land raiders, and the fewer kill points total will make up for the loss of the Oblits.

Ran a few games up at CHG tonight, and I've gotta say I wasn't too pleased. It was a bit of a combination of god awful rolls and Land Raiders getting immobilized at the drop of a hat... followed closely by Zerkers getting bombarded by plasma. Maybe it's just the fact that I had 2 units of Zerkers, and only 1 ever got to play and the other just sat around waiting for something to punch. Not really sure, but I can say that I was not happy with the LRs over my Oblits. That said I'm also considering the following:


HQ
DP - Wings, MoN, Warptime - 175
DP - Wings, MoN, Rot - 165

Elite
Termicidex3 - CombiMeltax3 - 105

Troop
PMx7 - Meltax2, ChampW/Fist, Icon, Rhino - 261
PMx7 - Meltax2, ChampW/Fist, Icon, Rhino - 261
PMx7 - Plasmax2, ChampW/Fist, Icon, Rhino - 271
Zerkersx8 - ChampW/Fist, Icon - 213

Heavy
Oblitsx2 - 150
Oblitsx2 - 150
LR - DP - 240

This comes out to 1991/2000. I don't know about the LR for the Zerkers, though a Rhino doesn't always get the job done. I'm a bit worried about horde armies and a lack of anything truly reliable in clearing them out. I've also been a bit underwhelmed by the zerkers as of late, so I'm open to trading them out.

With regards to the rapid destruction of your tanks and eventual plasmaing, you were playing guard, I believe, and they do both of those things on a level that no one else can match.

That said, I think you're better off with the oblits. LRs don't scare me, especially when they're pulling double duty as tank busters and transports o' death. The only problem you'll have with that second list is target priority. While the DPs are scary, they can be dealt with pretty effectively with massed small arms fire. That LR with its blood-covered occupants, however, has to go. I'm likely to focus fire and strand the 'zerkers.

I'd say you should drop the LR and take 2 squads of 'zerkers in Rhinos. That gives me four almost equally potent problems, as opposed to one clear target.

Yes my abysmal LR performance was against the IG, though only half of that can be blamed on the flashlight wielders. First game he popped one LR and the second immediately immobilized itself on terrain... then my Vindi followed suit... then a Rhino. The Next game he popped one LR turn one and immobilized the other. Then my 2 Rhinos and Vindi(both rolls... even with the dozer) proceeded to do the same. Halfway through the game one rhino repaired itself only to reimmobilize itself getting out of the terrain it last got stuck in... Terrible terrible rolls.

Any way, on to the list... Dropping the LR for another unit of Zerkers and 2 Rhinos leaves me about 9 points over. That's after stripping the icons from everything. I could drop the one Plasma Squad to another Melta squad and that would leave me at 1999. That would also solve my Horde problem against everything but the current iteration of Nids. Over on Bolter and Chainsword people have been recommending I drop the Zerkers all together in exchange for another PM squad with Flamers.

One of the other things I'm finding I have trouble with is where to send my Warptime Prince. I know threat priority when it comes to vehicles and what to take out, but as far as the unit to send the prince out hunting I'm not really sure. Should he go for easy kills or try to take out the opposing army's hammer? Also, do you know of a good place that has a few battle reports, I find those to be extremely helpful

I like the 'zerkers because your opponent has to deal with them. Plague Marines are difficult to kill, but I'm not really afraid of them. Of course, in a tournament they're an SOB to get off of objectives. I'd say that depends on your play style. The PMs won't support your DPs like the 'zerkers will. In truth, the PMs might win you some objective based games, but I'm going to put your DPs down very quickly because they and your oblits are all I'm worried about. Most armies are going to have enough firepower to put that group down. Of course, I play an assault heavy army, so I'm less susceptible to getting bogged down by the PMs, as opposed to standard Space Marines.

With regards to your demon prince, I'd say that it depends on the mission. If you're running objectives try to immobilize/kill transports and their squishy insides. Lots of people run minimal troops choices, and if you can eliminate them you've assured yourself at least a tie. If they can make it though, I'd say they are best at killing vehicles, the problem is getting them there.

Actually looking at you're build, I might run them as PM support. Assault with the PM, getting into BtB with as many models as possible. Then hit the unit on the edge when they can only get one or two models to attack the DP. The PMs can soak up loads of damage, and you're free to rampage through them, at least for the first turn.
Wow, that rambled. Hopefully, there's something useful in there.

Later,

Monkey

It made perfect sense, use the Prince as the hammer to the PM's anvil. The transport popping is something I feel stupid for not thinking of right off the bat. After thinking about all of that I think dropping the LR for the Zerkers may be the right call. Not only does it provide more priority targets, but it also gives me another scoring unit and more bodies to back it up. Hopefully my bad luck with the zerkers is just luck and not the way things will stay. That said I'm still a bit worried about scatter with the Termicide and the lack of Icons, but there's not much I can do about that if I can't find the points for the icons.