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Itkovian
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Verminlord
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PostSubject: Star Wars RPG   Star Wars RPG Icon_minitime6th August 2009, 12:51 pm

Anyone else out there have this? Used to have a group, it crumbled after a few work schedules changed.
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PostSubject: Re: Star Wars RPG   Star Wars RPG Icon_minitime6th August 2009, 2:31 pm

i have played an older version in the past would be interested in a game if the schedule will allow it.
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gamewizard
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PostSubject: Re: Star Wars RPG   Star Wars RPG Icon_minitime6th August 2009, 8:21 pm

It looks like my distributors are dropping the title so if anybody wants any of the books it would be a good time to get them. I won't be able to order most of them much longer, it seems.
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PostSubject: Re: Star Wars RPG   Star Wars RPG Icon_minitime6th August 2009, 8:41 pm

Are they dropping the core rules? As far as I know, it's still a supported WotC game, so it seems weird that a major distributor would simply drop it from the line. I do know that some of the older books are going out of print, but that shouldn't effect the entire line.
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themcfadden
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PostSubject: Re: Star Wars RPG   Star Wars RPG Icon_minitime25th August 2009, 11:21 pm

The new saga edition books are pretty cool. I've run a game and played in a Saga game and have really enjoyed them.
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gamewizard
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PostSubject: Re: Star Wars RPG   Star Wars RPG Icon_minitime26th August 2009, 12:01 am

Fulminata wrote:
Are they dropping the core rules? As far as I know, it's still a supported WotC game, so it seems weird that a major distributor would simply drop it from the line. I do know that some of the older books are going out of print, but that shouldn't effect the entire line.

Well, it's a distributor issue; actually. If the distributor I get most of my RPG books from doesn't feel that they sell enough of the books they will drop them. Mongoose Runequest is still available, but the distributor has dropped most of their titles from distribution. After I whined about it to the head of Mongoose, Mongoose told me I could order any book I wanted and they would put it in their weekly drop shipment to the distributor. The distributor agreed that I could do the order but on a one-time basis only. I told them to forget that since I felt I would have to do some unnecessary explaining to any interested buyers.
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Fulminata
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PostSubject: Re: Star Wars RPG   Star Wars RPG Icon_minitime26th August 2009, 1:36 am

Verminlord wrote:
Anyone else out there have this? Used to have a group, it crumbled after a few work schedules changed.

To answer the original post: I've got all the books up through the Legacy Era Campaign Guide. I'll probably pick up some of the others eventually, but my gaming money right now goes mostly to stuff I'm actually playing.
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Itkovian
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PostSubject: Re: Star Wars RPG   Star Wars RPG Icon_minitime26th August 2009, 4:30 am

I think I have this in a pile of books I inherited... Might have to have a look at it. WHEN I get the time... Rolling Eyes
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PostSubject: Re: Star Wars RPG   Star Wars RPG Icon_minitime3rd September 2009, 9:28 pm

Fulminata wrote:
Verminlord wrote:
Anyone else out there have this? Used to have a group, it crumbled after a few work schedules changed.

To answer the original post: I've got all the books up through the Legacy Era Campaign Guide. I'll probably pick up some of the others eventually, but my gaming money right now goes mostly to stuff I'm actually playing.

Well, we could actually play this from time to time on Sunday instead of 40k. Especially since we are only a few that are showing up. Or if there is another time that would work better...
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PostSubject: Re: Star Wars RPG   Star Wars RPG Icon_minitime4th September 2009, 8:29 am

I might be up for that, although I'm semi-committed to Rogue Trader when that comes out and I've only got the one flexible gaming day right now (board game night is pretty much fixed on my schedule for now).
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crossbonesx11
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PostSubject: Re: Star Wars RPG   Star Wars RPG Icon_minitime30th November 2009, 9:39 pm

Saga has been my favorite gaming system to date, it has its weaknesses though. I adapted it to be compatible with Star Wars minis and it was extremely fun.
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PostSubject: Re: Star Wars RPG   Star Wars RPG Icon_minitime30th November 2009, 10:47 pm

crossbonesx11 wrote:
Saga has been my favorite gaming system to date, it has its weaknesses though. I adapted it to be compatible with Star Wars minis and it was extremely fun.

Really, do tell.
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PostSubject: Re: Star Wars RPG   Star Wars RPG Icon_minitime30th November 2009, 11:01 pm

It had its kinks but it worked. Did not get to play it into higher levels, where there would be more complications.

Essentially you average your defenses to get you SWM defense and add you damage die + any modifiers and round it to the closest denomination of 5 for your damage. From there you can just throw your guys into the SWM game. It gives potential to have large scale battles and not have to worry about NPCs, you just use 20 stormtrooper cards. We even had custom SWM cards with the roleplay stats on the back. If you want more info I can go into more detail.
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PostSubject: Re: Star Wars RPG   Star Wars RPG Icon_minitime12th January 2010, 1:49 am

Saga edition is good, but it's biggest weakness is the over-powered nature of the Jedi class. This came out as sort of a "D&D 3.75" edition run, when they started to introduce the concept of "power cards" prior to 4th ed. Specifically, this was done with Force powers. Force powers are amazing and super fun and they run and recover a lot like D&D 4th ed powers. But the catch is: Jedi still get all the normal class features of a class. So, they get all their basic class stuff and on top of that they can utilize Force powers for an entire second cache of skills and abilities.

If you play a Jedi, this is fantastic and you feel like a Jedi straight outta the movies. If you play another class (scoundrel, noble, soldier, what have you). . .you just don't feel as cool.
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Fulminata
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PostSubject: Re: Star Wars RPG   Star Wars RPG Icon_minitime12th January 2010, 8:14 am

I've never played a single session of the game, so take what I say with a huge lump of salt, but everything I've read and heard about Jedis in Saga Edition says that in mixed groups at least, GMs need to rely strongly on Dark Side points to keep the balance. It's been speculated, and I believe Rodney Thompson has at least hinted that the speculation is correct, that Moderate and Minor Transgressions have been left deliberately vague to give GMs a great deal of flexibility in assigning Dark Side points. A Jedi pays for his extra abilities by not having as much flexibility in action. They can't always take options available to other players for fear of turning to the Dark Side.

Leaving game balance up to what is essentially pure roleplaying on both sides of the GMs screen is a bit iffy as a game mechanic, but ultimately it's probably the only way to portray the Jedi in such a way that remains faithful to the films.

On a more specific level, never let a Jedi player get away with "but my character wouldn't consider that to be an evil act." The Force isn't subjective in terms of light and dark. Whether or not the characters agree with it, it's the final arbiter in the Star Wars Universe. And in the game, the GM is the Force.
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PostSubject: Re: Star Wars RPG   Star Wars RPG Icon_minitime12th January 2010, 11:41 am

Roleplay as a balancing mechanic for class abilities is such a bad bad bad bad bad f****** idea.

Canon Star Wars is Yoda, Obi-Wan, and (eventually) Anakin turned to the light side, hence the force ghosts. Obi-Wan used mind control. Yoda trained Luke to kill his own dad. BOTH of them outright lied to Luke (Luke, Vader killed your dad). Anakin slaughtered a room full of Jedi babies and turned to the light by killing Palpatine? How many GMs will allow lying and mind control to be okay actions, and killing a Sith balances out a roomful of dead babies?
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PostSubject: Re: Star Wars RPG   Star Wars RPG Icon_minitime12th January 2010, 1:04 pm

I think I'm in both camps on this one.

You're right, Fulminata, in that it's largely a DM-Player relationship.  But bsimon is also right in that governing that relationship is not an easy task.  In fact, it might be near impossible.

The Star Wars cannon, in my opinion, is far from objective on the morality of the Force.  I think if anything, Obi-Wan's statement to Anakin in Episode III that "Only the Sith deal in absolutes" is evidence of George Lucas' ambiguity concerning the Force's moral code.

I don't agree with all of the examples that bsimon mentioned, but I think the incident of Luke using "Force Grip" or "Force Choke" on the Gamorrean guard at Jabba's Place in RotJ illustrates this idea.  This power is used by Darth Vader in the movies (young and old Vader) as well as listed (if a small Expanded Universe reference can be made) as a "dark side" ability in all Star Wars games and game systems.

So why, then, was Luke Skywalker, the restorer of the Galaxy and redeemer of his father, Lucas' central messianic figure, a beacon of the Light Side (disregarding what happens to him in the fiction beyond the movies) portrayed as using a "dark side" power to murder a guard that he, presumably, could have disable by alternate means?  In the Star Wars universe, morality is highly subjective.
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PostSubject: Re: Star Wars RPG   Star Wars RPG Icon_minitime12th January 2010, 2:50 pm

That's why the GM=the Force, not SW Canon.

To be picky, Luke didn't necessarily kill the Gamorreans. The camera shifts away while the first one is still moving, and it's debatable whether or not the second one has passed out or not before the change of scene. Unlike with Vader's chokes which continue until well past the point where the victim has succumbed. It's possible that Luke simply used Force Choke to temporarily disable them as he walked past, or even to cause them to pass out, without actually killing them. To be more picky, who says he didn't get a Dark Side point for using the power? In fact, it's quite likely that Luke gains a number of points during the films, just not enough to turn to the Dark Side. He certainly earns at least one in the final battle as he lets his emotions control him in the duel with Vader.

I don't see Luke as a paragon of the Light Side. He's clearly struggling throughout the films not to succumb to temptation, and his reactions to the loss of his hand show that he feels that he hasn't always succeeded in that struggle.

Lying doesn't appear to be Dark Side point worthy, either in the films or the RPG. Although a GM could decide otherwise. The key way to get a Dark Side point according to the RPG is to use the Force to harm a living being. The specific phrase is "undue harm" which allows the GM to tailor the definition of "undue" to his campaign. A lenient GM could allow actions in self-defense, and could stretch the definition of self-defense. A more strict GM could rule that self-defense does not apply when you are only being attacked by guards because you have invaded a facility that it's their job to protect. A really strict GM could rule that self-defense is not an excuse, what matters is the result: dead opponent = Dark Side.

As for redemption, in Saga Edition there is a method for redemption, and it doesn't matter what pushes a character over to the Dark Side, the method is the same: Dramatic Heroism. If a character does something extremely heroic, without calling on the Dark Side, and at extreme personal cost, then they immediately lose all but one Dark Side point, turning them back to the Light Side in the process.

I do agree that using roleplaying as a balancing mechanism is generally a poor choice. In most cases I'll be one of the first to decry its use in this way. The problem is that I don't see any other way of doing it and remaining true to the source material when it comes to Jedi in Star Wars. The original d6 Star Wars had both a game mechanism and a more carefully defined roleplaying restriction, yet Jedi characters grew rapidly more powerful in that game than their non-Jedi companions. Making Jedi weak enough mechanically, or their companions strong enough, to balance things out would make Jedi play in a manner inconsistent with the movies.

The only option is to have a strong GM who can rein in any Jedi players using Dark Side points, or simply leave Jedi out of the game as PCs.
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PostSubject: Re: Star Wars RPG   Star Wars RPG Icon_minitime12th January 2010, 2:54 pm

I'm going from memory here, but isn't Luke supposed to fall again to the dark side after the sixth film, in what would have been the next trilogy?
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PostSubject: Re: Star Wars RPG   Star Wars RPG Icon_minitime12th January 2010, 3:35 pm

bsimon wrote:
......and killing a Sith balances out a roomful of dead babies?

What's funnier than a roomful of dead Jedi babies?

A live one on the bottom of the pile using his baby lightsaber to cut his way out.




Sorry, couldn't resist.
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PostSubject: Re: Star Wars RPG   Star Wars RPG Icon_minitime13th January 2010, 2:35 am

I agree with you, Fulminata. Most RPGers who want to play Jedi just aren't mature enough to handle it. The same thing happened with Star Wars Galaxies. The designers intentionally kept the path to becoming a Jedi secret because they knew that players would abuse the Jedi class. When it finally went fully public and anyone could do it, what happened? The servers were overpopulated with powerful Jedi who were in game and out-of-game idiots. Smile
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PostSubject: Re: Star Wars RPG   Star Wars RPG Icon_minitime13th January 2010, 12:35 pm

I've been playing Wizards Star Wars since it started, in that time I played one jedi. I ended up killing the character off because I did not have fun with him.

When I ran games, I always ran in the Rebellion era and warned players that if they built Jedi that they would in fact be hunted.
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PostSubject: Re: Star Wars RPG   Star Wars RPG Icon_minitime13th January 2010, 1:29 pm

In my experiences the best time to play a Jedi is in a Jedi group. We played an openly Jedi group in an Old Republic setting and it was so fun. Now if one of the characters would have been say a noble, I could see where he would feel a little left behind.
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PostSubject: Re: Star Wars RPG   Star Wars RPG Icon_minitime13th January 2010, 6:20 pm

crossbonesx11 wrote:
In my experiences the best time to play a Jedi is in a Jedi group.
This appears to be another common solution, as is playing in the Rebellion era with no Jedi. I think it all comes down to the GM and the players in the group and what they can handle.

Wildeyedjester: Luke does fall to the Dark Side a few years after the Battle of Endor in the Expanded Universe, and is eventually pulled back with the help of Leia. I don't think that had anything to do with any proposed plot to any films. It was actually one of the sillier stories I felt, and was a factor in my ceasing to follow the Expanded Universe. The writer was so bereft of original ideas that he couldn't even come up with an original villain, instead cloning the Emperor. In retrospect, it was so silly that it could have come from the pen of Lucas, except there was nothing in it that would have been very marketable to kids ;-)
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PostSubject: Re: Star Wars RPG   Star Wars RPG Icon_minitime13th January 2010, 10:29 pm

Ahhh! That's it! It was probably 15 years ago that I remember reading about Luke falling, and Leia trying to save him (Jedi, I think?). I also remember something about these very large vehicles that would descend on planets and more or less strip them. That's about it, though. At least I know i'm not going crazy now.
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